Simple question

maggs_10thgen

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This being the most powerful Si ever made. How come its not faster than the 8th and 9th gens in stock form? And the RSX-S? These cars all have a lot less tq. The weight is pretty close between all of them. After watching a ton of races on youtube, the 10thgens get a run for their money with these old vtecs. Its like a 50/50 split between wins and loses. What's up with that? Is it the power curve and gearing? It seems like this car dies off at high rpms while the vtecs keep winding out in peak hp. Grant it there are a lot of factors in these videos like drivers and mods.
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Honda_RacerX

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It is faster than those cars. Not by much though. It's around .2 - .3 seconds quicker in the 1/4 mile.
 
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maggs_10thgen

maggs_10thgen

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It is faster than those cars. Not by much though. It's around .2 - .3 seconds quicker in the 1/4 mile.
Actually it's the other way around. This 2013 was clocked in at a a 6.1 0-60 and 14.6 1/4 mile. Some of the 8th gens ran better times too. The 05-06 RSX-S pulled a 14.6 in one test as well.

Here's the articles:


05-06 RSX-S is listed at 14.6

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Integra_DC5

2013 Si is listed at 14.6

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mo...ivic/2013/2013-honda-civic-si-first-test/amp/

The best time I've seen from the mags on the 17-19 was 14.8 with summer tires. How can you say it's faster? It's a great car. But It just boggles my mind the car is still has gotten faster in decades.
 
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Vtec is old tech which wastes fuel and needs a major overhaul to work with upcoming EPA fuel economy targets. With VTEC the engine woke up around the last 3000rpm. A turbocharged engine like the 1.5t is mated to a small turbo which spools quite low in the RPM range to allow plenty of torque through the rev range. But driven easy, boost avoided, the engine is incredibly efficient on fuel.

I drove many previous gen Si and never was much impressed at needing to wind it out to find power. When I saw the 10th gen was turbo without VTEC I was interested in owning. I would rather have VTEC and turbo, but the fuel economy suffers and the CTR costs more than I could justify.
 

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Vtec is old tech which wastes fuel and needs a major overhaul to work with upcoming EPA fuel economy targets. With VTEC the engine woke up around the last 3000rpm. A turbocharged engine like the 1.5t is mated to a small turbo which spools quite low in the RPM range to allow plenty of torque through the rev range. But driven easy, boost avoided, the engine is incredibly efficient on fuel.

I drove many previous gen Si and never was much impressed at needing to wind it out to find power. When I saw the 10th gen was turbo without VTEC I was interested in owning. I would rather have VTEC and turbo, but the fuel economy suffers and the CTR costs more than I could justify.
Just wow to this. Wow.
 


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maggs_10thgen

maggs_10thgen

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Vtec is old tech which wastes fuel and needs a major overhaul to work with upcoming EPA fuel economy targets. With VTEC the engine woke up around the last 3000rpm. A turbocharged engine like the 1.5t is mated to a small turbo which spools quite low in the RPM range to allow plenty of torque through the rev range. But driven easy, boost avoided, the engine is incredibly efficient on fuel.

I drove many previous gen Si and never was much impressed at needing to wind it out to find power. When I saw the 10th gen was turbo without VTEC I was interested in owning. I would rather have VTEC and turbo, but the fuel economy suffers and the CTR costs more than I could justify.

But it's still slower unless you start playing with the boost. Which can grenade the motor. The "well it has more tq now for grocery runs" has never impressed me. The vtecs were like race motors from the factory = facts. What they did here was take a tiny basic economy motor and put it on steroids with boost. Lets be honest.
 

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I believe it's the dual mass flywheel. It's twice the weight of the earlier generations single mass flywheel, with the same horsepower. Maybe more torque, but not enough to overcome twice the flywheel weight. I believe that Honda "nerfed" the new Si with a smaller turbo and a heavier flywheel than what was originally tested and spec.'ed.
 

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But it's still slower unless you start playing with the boost. Which can grenade the motor. The "well it has more tq now for grocery runs" has never impressed me. The vtecs were like race motors from the factory = facts. What they did here was take a tiny basic economy motor and put it on steroids with boost. Lets be honest.
Sodium filled valves, harder rods, different turbo, lowered compression ratio, lsd, adjustable damping, .... They made a few changes. Not quite as much as the LS6 in my old c5z06 compared to the c5, but pretty much same block, and a bunch of small changes.
 

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I believe it's the dual mass flywheel. It's twice the weight of the earlier generations single mass flywheel, with the same horsepower. Maybe more torque, but not enough to overcome twice the flywheel weight. I believe that Honda "nerfed" the new Si with a smaller turbo and a heavier flywheel than what was originally tested and spec.'ed.
Very likely. Gotta keep a proper delta between other models, and then there is the justification for reliability by detuning. The MazdaSpeed Protege was a much more impressive car under development than when it was released. Bean counters killed what that car could have been. Then they suffered crap sales and went back harder for the MS3 which was an odd bird but still far better than what it replaced.
 


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Never drive the 8 Gen + Si but could it be the gearing and how we need to shift to 3rd to hit 60?

Faster to an arbitrary speed... Sounds pretty lame. I bet the 10th Gen is faster to 100. You could pick any speed to suit your argument.

The 1.5T has more power and torque so I'll take it.
 

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This being the most powerful Si ever made. How come its not faster than the 8th and 9th gens in stock form? And the RSX-S? These cars all have a lot less tq. The weight is pretty close between all of them. After watching a ton of races on youtube, the 10thgens get a run for their money with these old vtecs. Its like a 50/50 split between wins and loses. What's up with that? Is it the power curve and gearing? It seems like this car dies off at high rpms while the vtecs keep winding out in peak hp. Grant it there are a lot of factors in these videos like drivers and mods.
OK you say it's a 50/50 split but then you say the X gen is slower. Sounds like you want them to be slower if your "data" actually just says they're equally fast/slow.

Nice way to ask a question based on an inaccurate statement. I'm not even biased here, it's just a bad argument.
 

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Just wow to this. Wow.
Well he isn't exactly wrong lol. But it has more to do with fuel delivery vs. the older K series powertrains. Power for power, TCDI is far more efficient. And most of us aren't complaining on how well these little motors respond to basic mods. :cool:
 
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maggs_10thgen

maggs_10thgen

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OK you say it's a 50/50 split but then you say the X gen is slower. Sounds like you want them to be slower if your "data" actually just says they're equally fast/slow.

Nice way to ask a question based on an inaccurate statement. I'm not even biased here, it's just a bad argument.
Facts: The cars I mentioned have better 1/4 mile times on paper. I don't understand why the times haven't improved over the years. That's a legit question don't ya think?
 

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Facts: The cars I mentioned have better 1/4 mile times on paper. I don't understand why the times haven't improved over the years. That's a legit question don't ya think?
Definitely a legit question. I think the answer was already said - these cars drop off completely towards the top end.

I will say my 10th gen Si feels way faster than the K series motors in terms of usable speed, like when you're accelerating around cars on the freeway or going from 20-50mph, etc. Definitely more of a pull in my opinion.
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