Si vs Type R

turbo dragon

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I haven't seen to many other 10th gen Civics in my little town, especially Si's and definitely not Type Rs. But coming home a little later than usual Monday night, I see something that looks very familiar. I speed up a little to get a better look. To my surprise, it was a white Type R. We just so happened to get stopped at the red light right beside each other. I look his car over, the best I could in the dark, thinking, very nice, not sure if he was doing the same to me or not. We both apparently had the same idea, lets see if this guy can drive. In this little small town, you dare not speed, especially on the road we were on, so for me, it was going to be the first to 50mph, then I was out of it, he had to have been thinking the same thing. The light turns green and off we go, or so you would think. I never rev the motor nor dumped the clutch, but I didn't do much of anything except spin the tires, or my clutch is worse than I thought and it just free spun until it started to move. I'm hoping it was wheel spin, sounds cooler anyway, but the Type R got a car length in front of me and it seemed like we both hit 50mph, at the same time because we were both done. He turned off a side street and I went home.
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Meanwhile, unbeknownst to Mr Dragon, the Type R driver wasn't even aware of his presence. Relaxing to some classical music, the Type R driver accelerated at a reasonably brisk pace at the turn of the light as he was anxious to get home to his wife and children after a long day at work. Blissfully unaware of the smell of burnt clutch or sound of spinning tires emanating from Mr Dragon's Si as he frantically attempted to maintain pace in a race that never actually was....
 
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turbo dragon

turbo dragon

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Meanwhile, unbeknownst to Mr Dragon, the Type R driver wasn't even aware of his presence. Relaxing to some classical music, the Type R driver accelerated at a reasonably brisk pace at the turn of the light as he was anxious to get home to his wife and children after a long day at work. Blissfully unaware of the smell of burnt clutch or sound of spinning tires emanating from Mr Dragon's Si as he frantically attempted to maintain pace in a race that never actually was....
Thats funny, probably true, but still funny.
 

TheKevinlyFather

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Test drove a Type R this weekend. Not even comparable to an Si. That thing hauls. With that said, I'm no longer looking to get one. I'm sure people daily drive it. But, I just couldn't.

Enjoy your Si. It's nowhere near the performance of an R. But, it's a much better daily and a lot cheaper to maintain over the lifetime of the car.
 

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Test drove a Type R this weekend. Not even comparable to an Si. That thing hauls. With that said, I'm no longer looking to get one. I'm sure people daily drive it. But, I just couldn't.

Enjoy your Si. It's nowhere near the performance of an R. But, it's a much better daily and a lot cheaper to maintain over the lifetime of the car.
I appreciate this type of response. I've been seeing so much bashing between the Si and Type R. Just enjoy each for what they are.
:drive:
 

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What was wrong with it? Just curious, as I've daily'd mine for almost 2 years.
Nothing wrong, that is an amazing car. For me, it boiled down to what I would use it for. I'd be hauling myself to work daily, and my wife and two kids on the weekends. The backseat worked, but would be tight. The wheels also had me super nervous for potholes, road obstacles, etc. I also felt like I couldn't use the power of the car. 2nd gear was wheelspin galore and, after that, I was up to speed. Then, when something needs replaced, it's going to cost a premium over a typical civic because it's obviously a better/bigger part. I bet the car is a blast to track and probably just as fun getting onto a freeway. I would just rather invest the $10k premium over the Si in another way.

I was between the R and an RDX A Spec. The RDX, for me, is just a better car for the purpose I was wanting. A fun, reliable, family hauler that I can daily that leaves me looking back at the car when I walk in to work. I am going to miss the hell out of a manual transmission. But, the RDX is an amazing machine and is such an upgrade on the interior. I am probably going to trade in my Si on one here in a week or two.
 
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turbo dragon

turbo dragon

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I would have gotten a Type R when I bought the Si, except they dont make the Type R in a sedan, and need 4 doors for the family, I really dont like a hatch, it reminds me of grandparents old station wagon, just a squished version of one.
 

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Nothing wrong, that is an amazing car. For me, it boiled down to what I would use it for. I'd be hauling myself to work daily, and my wife and two kids on the weekends. The backseat worked, but would be tight. The wheels also had me super nervous for potholes, road obstacles, etc. I also felt like I couldn't use the power of the car. 2nd gear was wheelspin galore and, after that, I was up to speed. Then, when something needs replaced, it's going to cost a premium over a typical civic because it's obviously a better/bigger part. I bet the car is a blast to track and probably just as fun getting onto a freeway. I would just rather invest the $10k premium over the Si in another way.

I was between the R and an RDX A Spec. The RDX, for me, is just a better car for the purpose I was wanting. A fun, reliable, family hauler that I can daily that leaves me looking back at the car when I walk in to work. I am going to miss the hell out of a manual transmission. But, the RDX is an amazing machine and is such an upgrade on the interior. I am probably going to trade in my Si on one here in a week or two.
Besides missing a center seat, the backseat should be the same one found in the hatchback. Everything is slightly lower to the ground which might make a difference. The wheels are surprisingly robust despite what they are. Remember, they are 30 lbs on each corner so there is a lot of mass there to add to its overall strength. I put my stock wheels through quite a bit of abuse (not purposely of course) including some curbs and potholes in a Chicago winter. The worst I've had is a tire blowout (it broke seal, then resealed somehow). It was something I was worried about when I first got it so I did purchase a wheel protection plan, but never needed to use it. I eventually upgraded to 18" wheels to drop 10 lbs of rotational mass per corner and better tire selection.

Useable speed is kind of hit or miss. A 20 to 45/60 run can be quite a bit of fun still, even a 0 to 45/60 run can be fun. Usable torque starts 3500 RPM. Though if you have upgraded the intercooler or have lighter wheels it actually starts at 2500 RPM with a small dip at 3000 RPM; I believe the VTEC interchange happens here, but could be mistaken). In either case, you will want to rev the motor out to at least 4-5k to have some fun. By the time you're in 3rd gear, you're at 45 following this pattern. You can rev further and it will provide you with all the power through redline which is pretty amazing, but by the time you're in 3rd gear, you're at 60. Granted with an Si usable torque begins much earlier (1500-2000 RPM) which kind of makes it better for shorter pulls if you wanted to (like < 45 is still a ton of fun even after rowing through the first 3 gears to do it, the CTR is fun, but you only get a short 2nd gear pull doing it).

But you kind of weren't talking about usable everyday speed, you seemed to be talking more about easily accessible everyday speed. The CTR spins both 1st and 2nd, which you mentioned you had a problem with. As with any higher-powered 2WD car, you're given a lot of power and you're required to control that power successfully. The computers are there, but on the CTR don't really do much. Don't go balls to the wall in the CTR, find that sweet spot to have it pull as hard as it can without spinning the wheels and you will be rewarded. If you don't, you'll look like a fool wheel hopping off of the stop light. It takes a lot of time to learn. Until you figure this out, the car might be very frustrating to drive fast in every-day traffic.

You talk about an RDX last which has an AWD platform. There is no learning curve to drive fast with an AWD platform, so long as the car has enough power for the powertrain. Which the A-spec does. You will lose more power and efficiency to said powertrain, but you'll launch like no other. That being said, maybe something like an WRX STI, Golf R, or Focus RS would have been better suited for you over the CTR.
 

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Besides missing a center seat, the backseat should be the same one found in the hatchback. Everything is slightly lower to the ground which might make a difference. The wheels are surprisingly robust despite what they are. Remember, they are 30 lbs on each corner so there is a lot of mass there to add to its overall strength. I put my stock wheels through quite a bit of abuse (not purposely of course) including some curbs and potholes in a Chicago winter. The worst I've had is a tire blowout (it broke seal, then resealed somehow). It was something I was worried about when I first got it so I did purchase a wheel protection plan, but never needed to use it. I eventually upgraded to 18" wheels to drop 10 lbs of rotational mass per corner and better tire selection.

Useable speed is kind of hit or miss. A 20 to 45/60 run can be quite a bit of fun still, even a 0 to 45/60 run can be fun. Usable torque starts 3500 RPM. Though if you have upgraded the intercooler or have lighter wheels it actually starts at 2500 RPM with a small dip at 3000 RPM; I believe the VTEC interchange happens here, but could be mistaken). In either case, you will want to rev the motor out to at least 4-5k to have some fun. By the time you're in 3rd gear, you're at 45 following this pattern. You can rev further and it will provide you with all the power through redline which is pretty amazing, but by the time you're in 3rd gear, you're at 60. Granted with an Si usable torque begins much earlier (1500-2000 RPM) which kind of makes it better for shorter pulls if you wanted to (like < 45 is still a ton of fun even after rowing through the first 3 gears to do it, the CTR is fun, but you only get a short 2nd gear pull doing it).

But you kind of weren't talking about usable everyday speed, you seemed to be talking more about easily accessible everyday speed. The CTR spins both 1st and 2nd, which you mentioned you had a problem with. As with any higher-powered 2WD car, you're given a lot of power and you're required to control that power successfully. The computers are there, but on the CTR don't really do much. Don't go balls to the wall in the CTR, find that sweet spot to have it pull as hard as it can without spinning the wheels and you will be rewarded. If you don't, you'll look like a fool wheel hopping off of the stop light. It takes a lot of time to learn. Until you figure this out, the car might be very frustrating to drive fast in every-day traffic.

You talk about an RDX last which has an AWD platform. There is no learning curve to drive fast with an AWD platform, so long as the car has enough power for the powertrain. Which the A-spec does. You will lose more power and efficiency to said powertrain, but you'll launch like no other. That being said, maybe something like an WRX STI, Golf R, or Focus RS would have been better suited for you over the CTR.
For sure there is not a problem with the CTR. Great car, it just didn’t fit me and it was quite apparent when I drove it. I’d feel like I wasted 10k on an upgrade I wasn’t utilizing. Wish the car did fit though, as it is one amazing ride.
 


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Useable speed is kind of hit or miss. A 20 to 45/60 run can be quite a bit of fun still, even a 0 to 45/60 run can be fun. Usable torque starts 3500 RPM. Though if you have upgraded the intercooler or have lighter wheels it actually starts at 2500 RPM with a small dip at 3000 RPM; I believe the VTEC interchange happens here, but could be mistaken). In either case, you will want to rev the motor out to at least 4-5k to have some fun. By the time you're in 3rd gear, you're at 45 following this pattern. You can rev further and it will provide you with all the power through redline which is pretty amazing, but by the time you're in 3rd gear, you're at 60. Granted with an Si usable torque begins much earlier (1500-2000 RPM) which kind of makes it better for shorter pulls if you wanted to (like < 45 is still a ton of fun even after rowing through the first 3 gears to do it, the CTR is fun, but you only get a short 2nd gear pull doing it).

But you kind of weren't talking about usable everyday speed, you seemed to be talking more about easily accessible everyday speed. The CTR spins both 1st and 2nd, which you mentioned you had a problem with. As with any higher-powered 2WD car, you're given a lot of power and you're required to control that power successfully. The computers are there, but on the CTR don't really do much. Don't go balls to the wall in the CTR, find that sweet spot to have it pull as hard as it can without spinning the wheels and you will be rewarded. If you don't, you'll look like a fool wheel hopping off of the stop light. It takes a lot of time to learn. Until you figure this out, the car might be very frustrating to drive fast in every-day traffic.
Nailed it on the head. The only way for me to get past the 1st/2nd traction problem is using only like 40-50% throttle until about 4.5K in 2nd - then I usually can turn up the wick, by that time though, I'm almost at 60 (and probably speeding). The Type R defies FWD tendencies in some ways, but it can't overcome physics, sadly. Too much power to the front wheels and just not enough traction.

VTEC interchange is somewhere around 6K I thought. VTEC is only on the exhaust cam for the K20C1.

For sure there is not a problem with the CTR. Great car, it just didn’t fit me and it was quite apparent when I drove it. I’d feel like I wasted 10k on an upgrade I wasn’t utilizing. Wish the car did fit though, as it is one amazing ride.
Hey man, the Si is a sweet car, so don't feel too bad. I think one of the biggest things about the Type R people have to be mindful of is you just can't expect to be able to floor it in 1st or 2nd without finding out what wheel hop and wheelspin is. I think for a lot of people, that would be a deal breaker. If you get the RDX, that's gonna be sweet too, you have essentially the Type R motor with a slick 10 speed.
 

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Nailed it on the head. The only way for me to get past the 1st/2nd traction problem is using only like 40-50% throttle until about 4.5K in 2nd - then I usually can turn up the wick, by that time though, I'm almost at 60 (and probably speeding). The Type R defies FWD tendencies in some ways, but it can't overcome physics, sadly. Too much power to the front wheels and just not enough traction.

VTEC interchange is somewhere around 6K I thought. VTEC is only on the exhaust cam for the K20C1.



Hey man, the Si is a sweet car, so don't feel too bad. I think one of the biggest things about the Type R people have to be mindful of is you just can't expect to be able to floor it in 1st or 2nd without finding out what wheel hop and wheelspin is. I think for a lot of people, that would be a deal breaker. If you get the RDX, that's gonna be sweet too, you have essentially the Type R motor with a slick 10 speed.
iVTEC only exists on the exhaust side for the FK8, but it shuts off when the turbo is spooling under load. The iVTEC is one of the ways that Honda can "tune" the turbo to act how they would want it too since it controls the exhaust flow out of the motor and thus the exhaust flow that could go to the turbo charger to spool it up. It also is on during cruising, but off during idle.
 

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Hey man, the Si is a sweet car, so don't feel too bad. I think one of the biggest things about the Type R people have to be mindful of is you just can't expect to be able to floor it in 1st or 2nd without finding out what wheel hop and wheelspin is. I think for a lot of people, that would be a deal breaker. If you get the RDX, that's gonna be sweet too, you have essentially the Type R motor with a slick 10 speed.
Deposit is down on the RDX. Shopping around my Si right now as the dealer only offered $18k for it (2018 FC3 with 16k miles & pretty close to flawless...it's worth more than that, even on trade in). I'm hoping to offload it in a week or two. Got the shopping cart loaded with KTuner, Intercooler, and a Down pipe for after break in. Future plans to slap an R's turbo on there and have that thing scooting pretty good.

Maybe I'll get an R one day when it makes sense to have 2 cars. For now, I'm just going to try to be as close to an R in an RDX body as I can get :D.
 

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Deposit is down on the RDX. Shopping around my Si right now as the dealer only offered $18k for it (2018 FC3 with 16k miles & pretty close to flawless...it's worth more than that, even on trade in). I'm hoping to offload it in a week or two. Got the shopping cart loaded with KTuner, Intercooler, and a Down pipe for after break in. Future plans to slap an R's turbo on there and have that thing scooting pretty good.

Maybe I'll get an R one day when it makes sense to have 2 cars. For now, I'm just going to try to be as close to an R in an RDX body as I can get :D.
Make sure you post pics!!! I lurk on Acurazine too just to see what life is like for those owners. I love the RDX A-Specs. Unfortunately I have no use for one (single, don't carry anything) but I thought it was a slick looking crossover.
 

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Make sure you post pics!!! I lurk on Acurazine too just to see what life is like for those owners. I love the RDX A-Specs. Unfortunately I have no use for one (single, don't carry anything) but I thought it was a slick looking crossover.
Carvana is buying my Si for $19.7k, nearly $2k more than what the dealer offered for it :dunno:. They pick it up tomorrow and I am picking up my RDX on Weds! Pics shortly!
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