Saying "It is just a 35k Civic at the end of the day" . . . Makes me so mad

[boosted180sx]

Nah, I'm just not at your becking call. Also, if you don't mind, clarify what type of engineer you are? The fact you didn't clarify makes me think you are a system engineer.

Boosted180sx did a good job of explaining it. Although, he kind of glanced over how your tires maximum grip is often the limiting factor in how quickly you can stop.

i didn't feel like going on in more detail with the conversation so i didn't say it lol.

but basically,

tire is the most important part of the braking system. If you are triggering abs or skidding on the brake set up you are currently on, a better pad material is not going to decrease your braking distance. Hell, it may be possible that it would increase your braking distance because you can over outwork the grip of the tires more quickly and either trigger abs or skid earlier.

Once you have the tire part figured out, your next step would be to get brake pads. That would decrease braking distance due to creating more friction.

the next problem you will run into after that is, more friction = more heat. That's where the bigger brakes (rotors, pads, calipers) comes into play. Increasing the surface area of the brakes to disperse the heat over a bigger area and to dissipate heat faster.

alot of people think the bbk decreases braking distance because it utilizes bigger pads and that's not necessary the case. All a big brake kit does is lower the temperature that your brakes would operate at. A bigger brake pad will spread out the clamping force over a bigger area giving you a much better pedal feel but the friction between the rotor and the pad does not get increased. Thus not giving you a decreased braking distance.

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[UFO CTR]

Nah, I'm just not at your becking call. Also, if you don't mind, clarify what type of engineer you are? The fact you didn't clarify makes me think you are a system engineer.

Boosted180sx did a good job of explaining it. Although, he kind of glanced over how your tires maximum grip is often the limiting factor in how quickly you can stop.

I'm a license Civil Engineer in the state of CA...I design homes, apartments and anything upto 60' tall...currently a Stamping engineer at an MEP Seismic Bracing firm (Mechanical, Electrical and Plumbing). I deal with force and reaction on a daily basis...

btw, you still haven't explain why size of brakes doesn't make? please explain...

 

[UFO CTR]

i didn't feel like going on in more detail with the conversation so i didn't say it lol.

but basically,

tire is the most important part of the braking system. If you are triggering abs or skidding on the brake set up you are currently on, a better pad material is not going to decrease your braking distance. Hell, it may be possible that it would increase your braking distance because you can over outwork the grip of the tires more quickly and either trigger abs or skid earlier.

Once you have the tire part figured out, your next step would be to get brake pads. That would decrease braking distance due to creating more friction.

the next problem you will run into after that is, more friction = more heat. That's where the bigger brakes (rotors, pads, calipers) comes into play. Increasing the surface area of the brakes to disperse the heat over a bigger area and to dissipate heat faster.

alot of people think the bbk decreases braking distance because it utilizes bigger pads and that's not necessary the case. All a big brake kit does is lower the temperature that your brakes would operate at. A bigger brake pad will spread out the clamping force over a bigger area giving you a much better pedal feel but the friction between the rotor and the pad does not get increased. Thus not giving you a decreased braking distance.

let's equalize all the pads now and take it out of the equation, so if all thing being equal (tires, pad compound, disc hardness, etc), then the bigger brake still won't matter correct?

EDIT: btw, I was being pretty general...I didn't exactly say bigger brakes with a bar f soap or chunk of rock as brake pad as well...so let's keep this general...I also didn't say increase brake size without increase rotor/caliper size...I in fact is arguing faster cars should be equally good brakes, so let's not get too deep into the physics of braking.

 

[boosted180sx]

let's equalize all the pads now and take it out of the equation, so if all thing being equal (tires, pad compound, disc hardness, etc), then the bigger brake still won't matter correct?

EDIT: btw, I was being pretty general...I didn't exactly say bigger brakes with a bar f soap or chunk of rock as brake pad as well...so let's keep this general...I also didn't say increase brake size without increase rotor/caliper size...I in fact is arguing faster cars should be equally good brakes, so let's not get too deep into the physics of braking.

Technically, the bigger brakes should decrease the distance because the larger pads and calipers would be able to clamp onto the rotors faster than a smaller brake can but we are talking about a minuscule amount. However, we are also looking at more rotational mass that the brakes would have to stop with the bigger brakes.

Bigger calipers, bigger brake pads, bigger rotors main purpose is to give a better pedal feel and allow the brakes to be able to handle more heat and not to reduce the braking distance. The impact it has on braking distance is not as much as you would think if we are talking about a single stop.

i do agree faster cars should have equally good brakes but that's not necessary the case unfortunately.

 

[UFO CTR]

Technically, the bigger brakes should decrease the distance because the larger pads and calipers would be able to clamp onto the rotors faster than a smaller brake can but we are talking about a minuscule amount. However, we are also looking at more rotational mass that the brakes would have to stop with the bigger brakes.

Bigger calipers, bigger brake pads, bigger rotors main purpose is to give a better pedal feel and allow the brakes to be able to handle more heat and not to reduce the braking distance. The impact it has on braking distance is not as much as you would think if we are talking about a single stop.

i do agree faster cars should have equally good brakes but that's not necessary the case unfortunately.

unfortunately due to reason we don't fully understand...I absolutely agree.

 

[saz468]

I was at a local car show a few months ago I was looking at a black CTR in the show a older couple was also looking at it the woman as what is it pointing at the CTR her husband shrugged his shoulders i simply said it a high performance Honda Civic the gentleman said he wouldn’t put much faith in a high performance economy car I laughed and pointed at a 1966 mustang fastback and replied that car is based off a falcon which was a economy car

 

[Robotaz]

I'm a license Civil Engineer in the state of CA...I design homes, apartments and anything upto 60' tall...currently a Stamping engineer at an MEP Seismic Bracing firm (Mechanical, Electrical and Plumbing). I deal with force and reaction on a daily basis...

btw, you still haven't explain why size of brakes doesn't make? please explain...

So you’re a statics guy talking about dynamics and materials science. At least your honest.

I’d leave out the part about being licensed. It implies something to some people that it should not.

 

[UFO CTR]

So you’re a statics guy talking about dynamics and materials science. At least your honest.

I’d leave out the part about being licensed. It implies something to some people that it should not.

yes, I use statics on a daily base...statics is bread and butter for most low rise building, and equipment and utility supports. But, I do deal with dynamic loading every once in a while with stack design checking the vibration due to wind loading...also, all engineers must understand a little about material science, as it is part of engineering school.

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