Primer: Hitting the track in your Civic!

[chi town brat]

Oh. In Type R mode, how was the body roll? I like my cars to feel like a rail. Though they are not they are flat.

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[Anthony FK8]

Great review.

Mini with an insane PAX time, thanks Craig Wilcox? LOL. Man that day at Natz sucked for a lot of people there. David Marcus is out of Florida and races with us in our region and filed the protest and now the SEB has to really deal with tunes that deal with boost tables that "shouldn't" be touched. And no, I am not making the argument here that it was. Craig is a talented driver.

Thanks for the input on this. I can't wait until after Nationals, then I'll be out in my CTR!

LOL!! those damn Mini's! IMO the best part about the Type R for Street class, is those dampers! you literally can have a co driver change your settings in car on the fly! (i have yet to try it) but yes that Mini was just stupid! like PAX hero!!!!!!! Hope to see you next season at Nats in our Type R's!!! (I'm down to petition for C or D street LOLOL, we deserve "cheater" pax too right? )

Any thoughts on if the Si will be in HS or GS? In this month's SCCA fast track is put all non CTR and Si Civics in HS. Makes me think the Si is destined for GS

Due to the damper adjustment for sport and comfort it might be classed as GS due to that and the Helical diff, HS cars tend to not have any diff, regardless the ST and Mini + GTI still offer very good competition from regional to national levels!

 

[Anthony FK8]

Oh. In Type R mode, how was the body roll? I like my cars to feel like a rail. Though they are not they are flat.

haha the photo at the bottom is in +R body roll was very low!, I have a crappy video, I can try and upload

 

[grantsjc]

Do you think Civic Si would have any chance in STX AX class against BRZs and Mini Cooper S? Heavier than BRZ and Mini. Little more torque than brz. If I recall can't touch stock boost which rules out most tunes. I know me I'm likely to get bored with stock HS trim and I'm thinking STX may be fun but wondering if I'll be competitive ?

 

[Anthony FK8]

Do you think Civic Si would have any chance in STX AX class against BRZs and Mini Cooper S? Heavier than BRZ and Mini. Little more torque than brz. If I recall can't touch stock boost which rules out most tunes. I know me I'm likely to get bored with stock HS trim and I'm thinking STX may be fun but wondering if I'll be competitive ?

Truthfully. STX is a frs/brz/gt86 spec class nationally regionally if you're fast enough you can hang. I had a STX 9th gen. and it wasn't as fast as the brz but I also wasn't fully STX prep. Just rsb coilovers and wheels with tires. HS is probably the most competitive class magenetic damper, real diff wide tire and wheel combo. With Rpf1's a big rear bar and tires you should PAX the street class regionally

 

[grantsjc]

Y

Truthfully. STX is a frs/brz/gt86 spec class nationally regionally if you're fast enough you can hang. I had a STX 9th gen. and it wasn't as fast as the brz but I also wasn't fully STX prep. Just rsb coilovers and wheels with tires. HS is probably the most competitive class magenetic damper, real diff wide tire and wheel combo. With Rpf1's a big rear bar and tires you should PAX the street class regionally

I suspected that would be case. Those STX BRZs are quick. I ran my car show room stock at a Pca event with all season tires. Man talking about no grip!

 

[Anthony FK8]

Y


I suspected that would be case. Those STX BRZs are quick. I ran my car show room stock at a Pca event with all season tires. Man talking about no grip!

Lol yeah man a good set of tires will make a world of difference!

 

[grantsjc]

Lol yeah man a good set of tires will make a world of difference!

Yes cant wait as I figured Id change tires even if I got sport tire option so opted to go with all seasons to save $200. Here is the car 5 days old as it came from showroom Axing . My first time in FWD car in a long long time. Hey I beat several Porsches which was fun! Funniest thing ever is I couldn't see any wear on the 560 tread wear all seasons after a full day of AX runs.

Here is my Porsche AX car setting TTOD at same venue. It has a little more grip with 335 A7s

 

[Anthony FK8]

Track day update!
did my first track day in the Type R, toasted the rear rotors and pads! Definitely go to the track with the intention of replacing them before hand during or after, depending on how you drive how hard you brake and the course you plan to do your HPDE!

I managed to some how CEL 3 times in my 2 day event. And I am happy about it. I want to make every forum member aware that breaking your car isn't the end of the world!

I heard rumors of the "don't track it below 1/4 tank of gas" as track ready as Honda may market the car. There is big room for improvement.

My CEL occurred when I had half a tank of fuel, I lost my rev match and shot an emissions problem. Which if you search around on the forum here you will find that it has happened to a few us and many of those didn't track it.

My story (the short version). I may or may not have fuel starved the car under high g load. Lost a whole lot of power. Flipped drive modes from +R to comfort and pitted to track off and assess the issue! I borrowed a friends OBD2 scanner and pulled a code P0299 which is an underboost code. Which made a lot of sense. I lost a lot of power I went from a Type R to a miata. In a few turns. And it fuel cut around 5,000 rpm. Thinking it was only fuel related I refueled with 93 Octane called a dealer (they couldn't help identify the issue because. No one broke one.. well not enough to hear stories or post a TSB) on my way back to the track I made a healthy 19-20psi of boost on the street (2-3rd gear pulls up hill). I cleared the codes and my rev match system was back online and I was a happy camper (yes I know how to heel toe shift) coming into turn one exiting pits at around 50 or so mph on a hot track. Before I could touch 3rd gear. I got the same errors on the dash... ignoring them because I knew I had fuel. I drove the car. As hard as I felt was reasonable. Finished my session with the only issue of not having my rev match (not the end of the world). Plugged the OBD2 reader in... shot a code of P0035 which is again a turbo code but this time related to the waste gate. Because I was over boosting. Or so the reader and ecu said. I cleared the code again not really knowing what the problem was but searching around and hearing the an O2 sensor could be funky or engine harness was poorly manufactured. Everything ran fine.. I just had this silly light on. I want to stress heavy how smart and sensitive the car is. Many of its systems are wired together to speak to each other through the ecu. Long story short. The PSI gauge on the days was reading peak boost of 26psi in 4th gear at around 6,000-7,000 rpm. Grabbing 5th holding the factory "peak" or 23.2 psi or whatever they are marketing and it bouncing around to 24psi before entering braking zones blah blah. All driven in +R mode. Now. On the street the most I've ever seen at redline in any gear is 19psi which sounds right. Many turbo cars loose boost on factory tunes high in the rev range...(p.s. When the tunes come out. Try 6psi over. It felt amazingly powerful) long story short. I either have a bad harness, O2 sensor, fuel pump... or something else like weird waste gate problem blah blah. Finishing my last session of the day I killed my rear rotors left foot braking and sliding the car around turns to point toward the apex and track out under WOT.

in summary. Upgrade your pads before a track day. Even if you haven't driven on them for anything but one autocross and street driving occasionally. I have 2,200 something miles and 200 of them were from the track itself. In any weird situation or Murphy's law of bad luck. At the very least bring a set of rear pads and rotors just in case. Hopefully soon aftermarket companies will come out with more aggressive pads. The front brakes however. I could not fade to save my life. The tires gave out (under over heating) well before I could fade the front pads.

Anyways. Have no fear. I broke mine so the rest of us don't have to. As far as the check engine line I will have update once I hear back from the dealer in a week or so whatever issue is and I will post about it in a follow up.
My only upgrade to the car was tires bridgestone Re-71r's and they held up great usually overheating a lap before or last lap of my sessions. Weather was high 60's in the AM and high to mid 70s in PM. I did not heat soak the motor I did not experience any overheating on coolant or oil. I will again update once I do a full flush of all the fluids and what not, I plan to do many more next season and will have info on my set ups and tire choice/pressures next year. Until then. Enjoy your cars and expect them to break even if you abuse them or don't. ‍

 

[ayau]

@ronmcdon

Currently the CTR has negative camber set from the factory and currently it does not look like it can be adjusted and there isn't a camber kit at the time I posted this that I know of.

All 10th gen Civics have the ability to adjust front camber, including the Type R. See link below.

http://www.civicx.com/threads/factory-alignment-procedures-and-specifications.15163/

Rear camber isn't adjustable from the factory, however, SPC makes adjustable rear upper control arms. You don't really need them since only the front is camber challenged.

 

[ayau]

@Anthony FK8 , the rears might be toasting because the computer is braking for you to rotate the car. Did you try to disable traction control in +R mode? This doesn't defeat 100% of the traction control system, but it will turn off most of it. I've also read people putting the car into a "service mode" to further defeat the nannies. I don't have the instructions to put the car into service mode in front of me.

Do you have one of the earlier batches with the faulty wiring harness? It appears the June and later builds have the updated harness.

 

[Anthony FK8]

@ayau I do indeed have the old sensor and harness so I'm pretty confident that is the main issue! And I was told not to run with the "nanny's" off because of safety reasons. Someone went off early that morning ate a wall so they said all assists on! I'm confident that's what killed the rears for sure! I left foot brake a ton and +R offers the most oversteer but corrects it you push beyond its programs parameter I'm guessing. But yes I am aware of the 5 seconds VSA OFF with traction control on and the 15 second system full off, and the "pedal dance" I autocross with the system in "fully off" mode and you can roast the tires and slide all you want! Assuming I could've let the back end slide and let the tires fix it versus the rear brakes I'm sure I wouldn't have had any issues but I was told to leave all my assists on, ironically my instructor said "I would try to find a way to loosen up that rear so the abs doesn't fix it"

Just letting others know that you can break stuff if you are hard on the car, and that every system is talking to one another. And not to worry because I'll break it so you don't have to. Definitely if you have the older harness or sensor get they replaced even if you plan to not track it

Now as for front camber. I didn't have a major camber wear issue. Sure I think an extra 1.5 degrees would help in the corners but beyond the factories 1.5 or whatever they off you'll loose straight line stability and braking distance will increase (not the end of the world obviously but be aware for those who are first timers to 'excessive camber' anything over factory lol) a simple rotate fixed a lot of the issues with the front outer edge dying quickly. I'm comfortable with 1.5 up to -3.0. But everyone has a preference. Pressures certainly effect it too i fixed my issues with the positive camber wear by bumping up one side versus the other and they wore out even by the end of the event.

But in short I didn't mind the nannys. They allowed me to "over drive" the tires and car, with out ultimately doing harm. After all it is cheaper to replace pads and rotors than a set of tires. So if they can last you beyond the couple of days you use them out on track I can't complain. The 71r is for the most part a sensitive tire it likes a small range of heat. Anything below that range it drives like mush. Until it's up to temp. And anything beyond it. It will give out earlier than expected.

It's been a big learning experience. I'm comfortable with my tires screaming and back end sliding through every cone on a 30 or 40 second autocross course. But the fastest laps out here were done in a Lamborghini hurican super trofeo R putting down 1:57 (not that I was trying to chase him down) still learning to give the tire more love and time. Going from a 9th gen Si to the Type R I have to remember to bleed off throttle more often (but the diff works so well) But as of now I don't think there are rear Track pads for the car only front
(I could be mistaken) all the oversteer I wanted (and forced) is what definitely killed my rears

Thank you for your feedback (;

 

[5inn]

@ayau I do indeed have the old sensor and harness so I'm pretty confident that is the main issue! And I was told not to run with the "nanny's" off because of safety reasons. Someone went off early that morning ate a wall so they said all assists on! I'm confident that's what killed the rears for sure! I left foot brake a ton and +R offers the most oversteer but corrects it you push beyond its programs parameter I'm guessing. But yes I am aware of the 5 seconds VSA OFF with traction control on and the 15 second system full off, and the "pedal dance" I autocross with the system in "fully off" mode and you can roast the tires and slide all you want! Assuming I could've let the back end slide and let the tires fix it versus the rear brakes I'm sure I wouldn't have had any issues but I was told to leave all my assists on, ironically my instructor said "I would try to find a way to loosen up that rear so the abs doesn't fix it"

Just letting others know that you can break stuff if you are hard on the car, and that every system is talking to one another. And not to worry because I'll break it so you don't have to. Definitely if you have the older harness or sensor get they replaced even if you plan to not track it

Now as for front camber. I didn't have a major camber wear issue. Sure I think an extra 1.5 degrees would help in the corners but beyond the factories 1.5 or whatever they off you'll loose straight line stability and braking distance will increase (not the end of the world obviously but be aware for those who are first timers to 'excessive camber' anything over factory lol) a simple rotate fixed a lot of the issues with the front outer edge dying quickly. I'm comfortable with 1.5 up to -3.0. But everyone has a preference. Pressures certainly effect it too i fixed my issues with the positive camber wear by bumping up one side versus the other and they wore out even by the end of the event.

But in short I didn't mind the nannys. They allowed me to "over drive" the tires and car, with out ultimately doing harm. After all it is cheaper to replace pads and rotors than a set of tires. So if they can last you beyond the couple of days you use them out on track I can't complain. The 71r is for the most part a sensitive tire it likes a small range of heat. Anything below that range it drives like mush. Until it's up to temp. And anything beyond it. It will give out earlier than expected.

It's been a big learning experience. I'm comfortable with my tires screaming and back end sliding through every cone on a 30 or 40 second autocross course. But the fastest laps out here were done in a Lamborghini hurican super trofeo R putting down 1:57 (not that I was trying to chase him down) still learning to give the tire more love and time. Going from a 9th gen Si to the Type R I have to remember to bleed off throttle more often (but the diff works so well) But as of now I don't think there are rear Track pads for the car only front
(I could be mistaken) all the oversteer I wanted (and forced) is what definitely killed my rears

Thank you for your feedback (;

I'm not sure of your level of experience, but if you feel comfortable sliding it around at an autocross, why wouldn't you feel in control on track?

The problem with nannies is that some day you will turn them off, and some day you will enter a corner a little too fast or lift a little too abrutly, and you'll put the car into a situation where the usually the nannies would come on to bail you out but this time they will not.

In my opinion it's better to turn them off from the get go and drive below the limits until you feel more comfortable. If you have autocross experience in the car you should already feel comfortable on track.

 

[Anthony FK8]

I'm not sure of your level of experience, but if you feel comfortable sliding it around at an autocross, why wouldn't you feel in control on track?

The problem with nannies is that some day you will turn them off, and some day you will enter a corner a little too fast or lift a little too abrutly, and you'll put the car into a situation where the usually the nannies would come on to bail you out but this time they will not.

In my opinion it's better to turn them off from the get go and drive below the limits until you feel more comfortable. If you have autocross experience in the car you should already feel comfortable on track.

I was completely okay with or with out the assists. I forced the car to oversteer more than the nannies would allow but my comfort level is high with the car, at autocross it's constantly sideways. As a result of my own fault. I chewed through the tears.

the club I ran with had a firm policy for "first timers" even if you have track experience from other tracks. They throw you in Novice, and basically they move you up after 2-4 events with them. And all the instructors agree on it who are in your group. Basically. I wasn't too worried about car control. I would've preferred more oversteer than the nannies would allow but I wasn't trying to upset anyone with "breaking" their rules. Last car I spun was 4 years ago (knock on wood)

I fully agree learn to control the car without nannies before jumping into any HPDE or learn it during. I definitely eased my way in to the car. In all I had a whole lot of fun

 

[DPL8]

I track my civic both in autocross and on the track! I love it you just really have to modify certain things to make it stay together haha.