OEM Tires - Have you replaced due to wear?

[willskiGT]

Now I'm not going to go around telling you what to do with your car, but please don't tell people it is anything approaching safe to drive on summer rubber in 20 degrees. 20 degrees is when you start having to worry about keeping summer compound warm for storage, to say nothing of using it. Driving on summer compound at 20F is sort of like driving on winter compound at 80F. It doesn't make any sense and is EXTREMELY DANGEROUS.

Based on manufacturer feedback (Michelin, Continental), summer tires can suffer damage only if used at 20F and below. So technically, it is safe for the tire to use them in those temps.

Additionally, if you are not driving on a snowy/icy road, summer tires (even at low temps) still perform quite well in low temps - actually better than winter tires in a lot of cases. In the video below, the ambient temp is 24F and the summer tires greatly outperform winter tires (on an S2000).

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[MonkeyConQueso]

Although I agree that if the temp only dips that low for two to three weeks during winters in some areas it's really not worth buying another set of tires for . However, at that point it REALLY is worth having alternate transportation (rental, uber/lyft, family car, etc...). If you don't care about those around you that you could collide with in an unexpected situation that cold, then think of the fact that you'll crash your car and have to deal with missing out on your vehicle for weeks. "Driving Carefully" doesn't mitigate risk.

Now I'm not going to go around telling you what to do with your car, but please don't tell people it is anything approaching safe to drive on summer rubber in 20 degrees. 20 degrees is when you start having to worry about keeping summer compound warm for storage, to say nothing of using it. Driving on summer compound at 20F is sort of like driving on winter compound at 80F. It doesn't make any sense and is EXTREMELY DANGEROUS.

I heavily agree with this, but I feel like we're re-living the discussion last year where no one was convinced that driving on summer performance tires in sub-freezing temperatures was a bad thing if they didn't already think so.

 

[willskiGT]

Although I agree that if the temp only dips that low for two to three weeks during winters in some areas it's really not worth buying another set of tires for . However, at that point it REALLY is worth having alternate transportation (rental, uber/lyft, family car, etc...). If you don't care about those around you that you could collide with in an unexpected situation that cold, then think of the fact that you'll crash your car and have to deal with missing out on your vehicle for weeks. "Driving Carefully" doesn't mitigate risk.



I heavily agree with this, but I feel like we're re-living the discussion last year where no one was convinced that driving on summer performance tires in sub-freezing temperatures was a bad thing if they didn't already think so.

It's not an issue on cold, dry roads. Obviously if there is snow on the road (exceedingly rare here) or any chance of ice, I wouldn't drive the car. We typically get ~1 snow event per year, and the entire city shuts down. I'm not out in the snow throwing down huge drifts.

 

[MonkeyConQueso]

It's not an issue on cold, dry roads. Obviously if there is snow on the road (exceedingly rare here) or any chance of ice, I wouldn't drive the car. We typically get ~1 snow event per year, and the entire city shuts down. I'm not out in the snow throwing down huge drifts.

 

[willskiGT]

Watch the video I posted above. 60-0mph braking in sub-freezing temps. Extreme summer tires stopped in ~130ft, winter tires in ~160ft. Saying that summer tires are dangerous (using them "puts others in danger") and have zero grip when it's cold and dry out just isn't true. Yes, ultimate grip is reduced, but they still outperform the winter tires by a significant margin.

As long as you recognize that summer tires should not be used in the wet below about 40F and should not ever be used on snow / ice (or below 20F), they are perfectly fine.

 

[willskiGT]

I feel like we're talking past each other here. It seems like you're making the point that under optimal cold conditions that summer tires will literally work as long as you drive extremely conservatively. I don't speak for MonkeyConQueso, but I believe he and I aren't disputing that. If you are driving 15 mph under the limit on a clear, dry 30 F day, then sure, I'm sure the summers will get you where you're going and back. The point that MonkeyConQueso and I are attempting to make is that real life isn't a series of uninterrupted ideal conditions. If someone cuts you off, if there's a puddle, if there's a sudden rainstorm, if you suddenly have a random tire failure, a summer compound tire is going to help you a lot less than an A/S or winter compound.

I've seen the video before, but even he says in the video "this doesn't mean you don't need summer tires." It does mean that you don't need to panic if a cold snap catches you with summers on.

The biggest takeaway I'd like you to have from what Monkey and I are trying to say is that risk management is about managing the worst case, not the best case. When he and I are talking about the dangers of tires, we're talking about bad rainstorms in the cold, which from experience are two events that summer tires struggle with independently, and together the UHP summer tires are like driving on bald tires.


It's your car, you do what you want with it, but please consider being conservative about safety.

I'm with you - for me, living where the average winter day has a high >50F and with an 8 mile r/t commute, summer tires year-round are fine. The reason I keep hitting on cold and dry conditions is that in order for it to get much below freezing here, it has to be clear. If there are any clouds, they provide an insulating effect and the temp is much higher. So the handful of days we have with a high <32F are inevitably clear/dry.

If I was doing longer commuting or lived in a place where the weather was more extreme or less predictable, I would definitely have a set of winters. I have the luxury (because of the short commute) of just leaving the car in the garage (either at home or at work) if there ever is weather that is extreme enough to dictate not driving the car. I actually did this a couple of years ago when we had a significant amount of snow (~6"). I left my RS4 parked in the work garage because it was on Pilot Super Sports and took an Uber home.

 

[MonkeyConQueso]

I feel like we're talking past each other here. It seems like you're making the point that under optimal cold conditions that summer tires will literally work as long as you drive extremely conservatively. I don't speak for MonkeyConQueso, but I believe he and I aren't disputing that. If you are driving 15 mph under the limit on a clear, dry 30 F day, then sure, I'm sure the summers will get you where you're going and back. The point that MonkeyConQueso and I are attempting to make is that real life isn't a series of uninterrupted ideal conditions. If someone cuts you off, if there's a puddle, if there's a sudden rainstorm, if you suddenly have a random tire failure, a summer compound tire is going to help you a lot less than an A/S or winter compound.

I've seen the video before, but even he says in the video "this doesn't mean you don't need summer tires." It does mean that you don't need to panic if a cold snap catches you with summers on.

The biggest takeaway I'd like you to have from what Monkey and I are trying to say is that risk management is about managing the worst case, not the best case. When he and I are talking about the dangers of tires, we're talking about bad rainstorms in the cold, which from experience are two events that summer tires struggle with independently, and together the UHP summer tires are like driving on bald tires.


It's your car, you do what you want with it, but please consider being conservative about safety.

Thanks for taking the time to explain what I think I was too tired to re-hash from last year's discussion (and likely better, as well). This is pretty much what I'm intoning. People forget that road conditions are random - bridges, expansion roads, etc... all have differing behavior in cold conditions. Not to mention underpasses and freeway interchanges that tend to pool water in shady areas. Weather can also sometimes be random and mercurial.

 

[CTSteve]

So, this thread isn’t about ‘OEM Tires - Have you replaced due to wear?’. It’s really about:

1. How much and why do I dislike the OEM tires and wheels and is there an alternative that will truly provide equal or better handling performance with better wear and road hazard resistance?
2. Should I use all-season tires to reduce cost and inconvenience even though they may compromise the handling feel and performance, which is why many of us bought the car?
3. If I live in an area that has winter conditions, even though occasional and marginal, should I have a set of winter tires?

#1 ‒ this could be healthy, there are some suggestions, but no hard facts as to what better summer tire there might be for daily driving. For me, that would mean retaining the OEM wheels, still having two sets of tires, retaining or improving the ‘cornering on rails’ feeling of the CTR with much better wear, better resistance to road hazards, absolutely no increase in torque steer, and priced at or below the Continentals. If anyone has anything that can be objectively demonstrated to do that better overall, I think we would like to know about it, and why and how.
#2 ‒ is a personal decision, doesn’t need to be justified if you accept the handling compromise and it works for you.
#3 ‒ is regional, specific, and personal. If you get just a few days of winter conditions a year and particularly if you have alternate transportation, you can take your chances and not do it, or you could save by using all-seasons in the winter and summer tires in the summer. If you don’t want all-seasons year-round, live where the weather can change quickly, or have predominantly winter conditions in the winter, and the CTR is your only transportation, best bite the bullet on winter tires and be safe. It’s the combination of both the summer compound and tread that creates the winter handling and tire durability issues for the summer tires. Remember also that driving on the summer compound in the wrong conditions can physically damage the tires in which case you will be buying more tires anyway.

My current ten-day forecast is for, within a week, daytime temps to be mid-40s to 50s and in the 30s at night. So, will change to my winter tires this week or next (Pirelli Sottozero 3, expensive but may be the only true 20” UHP winter tire in the market, on used OEM wheels bought at a great price). They worked well last year, a relatively mild winter, but as expected, do not give the true CTR handling feel. Will measure the tread depth on the Contis when I take them off. Will be interesting to see how they have done in a summer of daily driving.

 

[willskiGT]

Picked up some Pilot Sport Cup 2s in the OEM fitment. Let's see how long they last compared to my OEM tires (~4k miles).

 

[Jwolf]

Picked up some Pilot Sport Cup 2s in the OEM fitment. Let's see how long they last compared to my OEM tires (~4k miles).

$$$

I hope you don't plan on DDing those tires.

 

[willskiGT]

$$$

I hope you don't plan on DDing those tires.

I am DDing them, so we’ll see how they go in terms of tread life. The stock Contis were okay until I tracked them and then the fronts were kaput.

If I can get 12-15k miles out of them, I’ll be happy.

 

[Z3papa]

I'm going to spend off the OE tires which are being switched out for dedicated winters in the next week or so. Once spent, good riddance. I'll replace them for Pilot Sport 4S as my daily driver/rain tires and never look back. I'll have two sets of Motegi wheels for competition tires. Got to have your priorities. Keeping to Conti's for collectibility is downright crazy. By the time this car is "collectible", the tires will be really suspect.

 

[Jwolf]

I am DDing them, so we’ll see how they go in terms of tread life. The stock Contis were okay until I tracked them and then the fronts were kaput.

If I can get 12-15k miles out of them, I’ll be happy.

Why not have two sets of wheels/tires?

 

[WrongWayWade]

Why not have two sets of wheels/tires?

Cost, convenience.

However, I still find it odd that we are now supposed to think it is normal to pick up a new car that has tires where we fully expect to burn them up in 10,000 miles.

 

[Z3papa]

Cost, convenience.

However, I still find it odd that we are now supposed to think it is normal to pick up a new car that has tires where we fully expect to burn them up in 10,000 miles.

Have you been talking to my wife? I go through two sets of tires a year and hear this all the time.

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