Now This Is Interesting.....

[SoCalCivicSI]

Saw the recent article on climate change and there were some scientists or meteorologists talking on the radio about it.
One guy brings up the fact that for a 500 year period from about 800AD to 1300AD there was severe drought that lasted 480 years!!! (In the U.S. I believe but could have been Europe not sure)

Almost 500 years with extremely little rain at all. (I forgot how they figured this out, tree rings maybe??)

Now, as we all know, there wasn't ANY industrial pollution going on during that period from humans so what do you think caused that?
Certainly wasn't humans like some people like to claim.

I personally believe the climate is changing but I think it's normal, it's what the Earth does...and while obviously pollution is bad, there isn't much we humans can do about it except move to a area where we like the climate better!
Not that we shouldn't stop polluting and get a handle on it BUT........I believe the climate change hysteria is based on people with an agenda although I'm not sure what it is..........

Discuss nicely please?
Lets have respect for each other people.

Thank You!

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[MavicTB]

I am not 100% sold the measurable climate change we are experiencing currently is completely "man made". I am sure pollution has exacerbated the issue perhaps accelerated it or at least aided in someway to the current speed of climate change. To completely dismiss the idea that the amount of pollution the world produces as being at the least an accelerator to the natural cycle of climate on earth would be ignorant. There is measurable proof that both the use of fossil fuels and the global expanse in population directly correlate with climate changes. The expansion of population and technology has created need for more food... one of the most consumed animals is beef and cows create greenhouse gases... as does burning fossil fuels. Mix this in with deforesting, agriculture, over fishing, and pollution there is no doubt in my mind that "man" is effecting the world we live in. That's still not to say that there was not a natural trend already in play to partially explain the current trends in climate change. This is a much more complicated subject than its "real or fake". Frankly I find it sad how many people just believe what they are told on the matter. Ignoring it wont make it go away.

 

[Civics4Ever]

Seems where I live, northern Illinois, the winter starts later than in the past. A couple years ago, we had snow in early May.

 

[BlueLdr]

Did they provide a source for that information? Do we know what actually caused that drought? Just because it happened before industrialization doesn't mean it's a "normal" phase or event for the earth's climate.

The vast majority of scientists (who dedicate their entire careers to studying this very topic) agree that humans' actions over the past couple centuries have had serious detrimental effects on the environment, and that it will worsen exponentially if we don't make immediate changes. It'd be naive and irresponsible to reject that. It'd be equally naive to claim that every single bad happening with climate is a result of human activity.
That said, we're still facing a crisis that we knew was coming for some time now. Regardless of what caused it, we have the tools and the knowledge to combat it. It comes down to asking yourself how much of a mess in the world you want to leave for your children and grandchildren to clean up.

 

[tuxmonkey]

Preface: I am a scientist (chemist), working within oil and gas. I focus on chemical technologies that increase production and transport efficiencies in the infrastructure already in place. Oil and gas is without a doubt one of the easiest and most energy-dense sources of energy on our planet that we have spent years and years building infrastructure around; so it's easy and we are used to it. Unfortunately, oil and gas is finite and it will only become more difficult and more expensive to acquire as time goes on; oil used to be found literally seeping out of fissures in the ground, but the days of easy oil are long gone. The most energy-dense, but not yet the easiest is technically solar. Literally a physical ball of energy floating in space that is freely shooting energy at us all the time. We just need to make our current gathering and transport technologies better.

There is no doubt that produced CO2, whether from farming, industry, or cars, has at the very least sped up the process regardless if it is the conclusion to the Earth's natural process. The timeline is so long it is difficult for majority of humanity to comprehend the trend. There are some interesting documents written by scientists of Shell and Exxon (direct links), plus the encompassing article (see links at bottom). Also, keep in mind that CO2 isn't just a problem for the atmosphere, it is also causing the oceans to become more acidic over time. CO2 is highly soluble in water and will have major impacts on our oceans. Not only that, if major global ice sheets do melt to raise the oceans several meters as suspected then this massive influx of fresh water will have a major impact on the ocean salinity.

Overall, this issue is extremely complex and most arguments/debates stem from getting caught up in the weeds of politics and who is right or wrong. Regardless of how humans have impacted climate change with introduction of greenhouse gases we should be proactive in setting up future generations for success. What is wrong with having cleaner environments? Cleaner forms of energy? We, humans, are excellent at innovating so why do so many people just immediately jump on the "well it just won't work, don't do it" train? Hell, we sent people to the moon literally using pen and paper calculations... not computers. If I can give one piece of advice: don't listen to the talking heads that just constantly ramble on tv. They are reading a script and getting paid to do a job. Don't take information you read on social media, or even this forum, as immediate fact/non-fact or as a direct slander to you; you will just be miserable. Search for data that build facts. The people that we need to listen to, on any issue, are those who are typically quietest; the scientists, engineers, and innovators who are trying to solve problems within energy, medical, food, etc.

I appreciate the kind conversation we are having here and I hope it stays this way. We need more civil conversation now more than ever.

Promised links:

• Shell and Exxon's secret 1980s climate change warnings
  
• Direct link to Shell report
• Direct link to Exxon report

 

[xcoreflyup]

I went to school in China back in the 90 and early 2000 and we have been taught about pollution and climate change all along..this is not new.

 

[ep3_lol]

I'm not a scientist, but I don't trust anyone who tries to tell me that ripping lithium out of the ground for batteries and producing a car that still emits CO2 is better for the environment than a comparable purely ICE powered car with a modern motor not tuned for performance. And I'm going to straight up ignore them if they try to blame me for ruining their precious planet with my SUV and sports cars when so much else goes on in this world that destroys it.

Regardless of the science, the packaging around it turns me off. Talk to me about massive container ships that our, not my, consumerism drives. Talk to me about volcanoes. Talk to me about Chinese coal power plants.

 

[SoCalCivicSI]

Did they provide a source for that information? Do we know what actually caused that drought? Just because it happened before industrialization doesn't mean it's a "normal" phase or event for the earth's climate.

I for get the source, sorry I heard the report on a FM radio station.

Ok........so "if" it wasn't "normal" what could have caused it since there was no industrialization between 800AD and 1300AD??

How about the Sun? Possibility no??

Thanks for the replies guys!

 

[SoCalCivicSI]

Unfortunately, oil and gas is finite and it will only become more difficult and more expensive to acquire as time goes on; oil used to be found literally seeping out of fissures in the ground, but the days of easy oil are long gone.

Do we know for SURE that oil is "finite"?

Someone told me before the Earth produces oil, is that false?

Didn't they say the oil is running out before we found all that oil in the Dakotas?
I read that the USA is now the #1 oil producing nation on Earth, with more oil than the Middle East.

 

[tuxmonkey]

Do we know for SURE that oil is "finite"?

Someone told me before the Earth produces oil, is that false?

Didn't they say the oil is running out before we found all that oil in the Dakotas?
I read that the USA is now the #1 oil producing nation on Earth, with more oil than the Middle East.

It is finite because of how long it takes to create oil. There are still plenty of reservoirs to be found, but it may not be as easy to produce; it all depends on the type of rock the formation is made it. For instance, fracking is used in a lot of shale formations because of how small the rock pours are. There are chemical methods as well (what we do) to remove the oil. I'd look it up, but if I remember correctly the US has been a top producer before. Recently, the US exported it's first oil in over 70 years.

 

[xcoreflyup]

Here is what NASA said.

"The industrial activities that our modern civilization depends upon have raised atmospheric carbon dioxide levels from 280 parts per million to 400 parts per million in the last 150 years. The panel also concluded there's a better than 95 percent probability that human-produced greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide, methane and nitrous oxide have caused much of the observed increase in Earth's temperatures over the past 50 years."

https://climate.nasa.gov/

 

[ep3_lol]

" The panel also concluded there's a better than 95 percent probability"

 

[BoostedSiCoupe]

one thing that really fucking annoys me about the climate change topic is why the fuck is it such a conservative liberal thing? the climate isnt fucking political..

anyways, i dont give a shit what happens to the climate as long as it stays warm in my lifetime. cant stand the fucking cold or snow

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