New PRL e85 Flex-Fuel KIT Installed :O

[BobbyA]

Installed the new PRL e85 Flex Fuel Kit in my 2018 Civic Si today. WOW! What a difference it makes, it's not just tons of extra pull, but the motor has a whole new growl to it as well. I really like this kit, the fit and finish is polished and is done in such a way that if you want to remove it, will be fairly simple to return to factory settings. I think Hondata posted 65hp gain from using e85 with their tune, simply incredible performance for the money. Also, it's CLEAN Burning fuel, has a very sharp reduction in CO2 emissions, almost 100% reduction. For now, I'm using the straight e85 at the pump, no further dilution. Here a couple notes if it helps anyone:

1) Takes about 30-35 minutes, 10 of which is removing and replacing the under-body aluminum bonnet.
2) The hardest part imho, is the lower Coolant Sensor on the side of the Radiator, which is accessed under the vehicle. I'm right handed so fyi, to get this sensor unplugged, the clip is on the very bottom, you'll need to push up on the clip and contort your LEFT hand and body in such a way you can push it off and then plug into the PRL line. Get a 400 lumens flashlight so you can see. It's a very tight spot and dark in there.
3) I then used my right, one hand to connect both plugs - the Honda Factory plug into the PRL line or plug (there is no space in there for 2 hands, so this will take some effort.)
4) Pretty much everything else is easy and straightforward to install.
5) I'm using the Hondata e85 Ethanol Tune. I believe the calibration indicates it is +6psi. About the only setting I changed or "opted in" for was the aggressive throttle response. See my pic with the screen shot.
6) Just curious if anyone else is using the Hondata Ethanol tune and did you make any other changes? If YES, can you please screen shot them and post up? Thanks!!!

 

[alexrawdriguez]

I thought it was only good to run a blend of E30-45 for this platform or am I mistaken?

 

[ParkwayDrive13]

Congrats on your purchase! I couldn't be happier that I made the jump to an ethanol based tune myself. Using a TSP's PnP kit, though. However, i'm not surprised PRL released another quality part.

I thought it was only good to run a blend of E30-45 for this platform or am I mistaken?

You are correct sir. No gains to be had at this moment using anything above e30-40. Using the stock fuel system

 

[alexrawdriguez]

Congrats on your purchase! I couldn't be happier that I made the jump to an ethanol based tune myself. Using a TSP's PnP kit, though. However, i'm not surprised PRL released another quality part.




You are correct sir. No gains to be had at this moment using anything above e30-40. Using the stock fuel system

Hate to sound like a noob but do you have an explanation of why or do you know why? My previous platform was an srt4 and we ran full e85 and im just trying to understand why we dont make gains from running a higher amount of e85 vs a blend. I would imagine it has something to do with DI but I am not 100% sure as to why and would love to understand it. Also sorry OP @BobbyA I am not trying to go off topic on your thread and congrats on your purchase the PRL flex fuel kit looks like a very clean kit!

 

[ParkwayDrive13]

No problem! I believe a big part of it is maintaining a proper air/fuel ratio. Typically, running full E85 results in AFR in excess of 13.1+ Unfortunately, our stock fuel system will need to see some upgrades to get that number to where it should be.

@D-RobIMW is the man with the answers on this one, maybe he has some additional insight.

 

[BobbyA]

No problem! I believe a big part of it is maintaining a proper air/fuel ratio. Typically, running full E85 results in AFR in excess of 13.1+ Unfortunately, our stock fuel system will need to see some upgrades to get that number to where it should be.

@D-RobIMW is the man with the answers on this one, maybe he has some additional insight.

Hey Quentin, are you saying the Civic cannot deliver enough fuel if required or is delivering too much? In excess of 13.1+? The combination of the sensor and the tune to adjust (Trim) the fuel makes it pretty dynamic, also you can calibrate further if needed. I'm just wondering are you indicating the vehicle fuel system cannot generate enough fuel? I read somewhere that the A/F sensor being calibrated for gasoline and located post combustion will report inaccurately. Instead, we should refer to the "Lambda." I'm going to run a datalog and will try to post it later.

 

[BobbyA]

No problem! I believe a big part of it is maintaining a proper air/fuel ratio. Typically, running full E85 results in AFR in excess of 13.1+ Unfortunately, our stock fuel system will need to see some upgrades to get that number to where it should be.

@D-RobIMW is the man with the answers on this one, maybe he has some additional insight.

Here is my datalog. You can see the sensor reading at 65% Ethanol (that's the winter blend they have at the pump I guess) even though I did fill up entirely on e85 Pump. They add more gasoline in winter.

Also, note I used the Hondata feature to index "Lambda" on the AF Ratio because what I've read, if you are going to use e85, the AFR is not accurate, instead we should be referring to Lambda which is post combustion and rated for whatever fuel you are using. In this case, 1.00 means you have a good A/F combustion. If you get a Lambda LESS THAN 1, I believe that means you are running RICH. If Lambda is GREATER THAN 1, you are running LEAN.

Here are a few readings, you can see the vehicle speed, RPM, Lambda, etc. I did get plenty of variances (>1, <1, when I did WOT and/or downshifts to be expected??) but you can see from the table, when I was at cruising speed, Lambda was 1.00

 

[ParkwayDrive13]

Here is my datalog. You can see the sensor reading at 65% Ethanol (that's the winter blend they have at the pump I guess) even though I did fill up entirely on e85 Pump. They add more gasoline in winter.

Also, note I used the Hondata feature to index "Lambda" on the AF Ratio because what I've read, if you are going to use e85, the AFR is not accurate, instead we should be referring to Lambda which is post combustion and rated for whatever fuel you are using. In this case, 1.00 means you have a good A/F combustion. If you get a Lambda LESS THAN 1, I believe that means you are running RICH. If Lambda is GREATER THAN 1, you are running LEAN.

Here are a few readings, you can see the vehicle speed, RPM, Lambda, etc. I did get plenty of variances (>1, <1, when I did WOT and/or downshifts to be expected??) but you can see from the table, when I was at cruising speed, Lambda was 1.00

Good post. I'm not entirely sure on the reasons, the man I tagged will have way more insight than I could provide on the reasoning behind it

 

[05stisilver]

Hey Quentin, are you saying the Civic cannot deliver enough fuel if required or is delivering too much? In excess of 13.1+? The combination of the sensor and the tune to adjust (Trim) the fuel makes it pretty dynamic, also you can calibrate further if needed. I'm just wondering are you indicating the vehicle fuel system cannot generate enough fuel? I read somewhere that the A/F sensor being calibrated for gasoline and located post combustion will report inaccurately. Instead, we should refer to the "Lambda." I'm going to run a datalog and will try to post it later.

I'm pretty sure to run full E-85 you will need to upgrade the fuel pump and injectors. Plus I feel that with FBO + E blend the stock turbo is at it's limits.

 

[PRL Motorsports]

As a rule of thumb to those that are getting our flex kit, you'll want to blend your pump gas with ethanol (Typically ~8gal of 93 and ~3gal of ethanol). The car will not give additional power above e-40. Please let us know if you guys have any further questions regarding the flex kit, thanks!

 

[LilToTo17]

Here is my datalog. You can see the sensor reading at 65% Ethanol (that's the winter blend they have at the pump I guess) even though I did fill up entirely on e85 Pump. They add more gasoline in winter.

Also, note I used the Hondata feature to index "Lambda" on the AF Ratio because what I've read, if you are going to use e85, the AFR is not accurate, instead we should be referring to Lambda which is post combustion and rated for whatever fuel you are using. In this case, 1.00 means you have a good A/F combustion. If you get a Lambda LESS THAN 1, I believe that means you are running RICH. If Lambda is GREATER THAN 1, you are running LEAN.

Here are a few readings, you can see the vehicle speed, RPM, Lambda, etc. I did get plenty of variances (>1, <1, when I did WOT and/or downshifts to be expected??) but you can see from the table, when I was at cruising speed, Lambda was 1.00

Full E85 is just bad lol with our stock fuel system. You are more than welcome to run it and clog your injectors and run +13.1 afr. Not worth taxing your fuel system to the point of misfire and tuner Derek Robinson said

 

[ParkwayDrive13]

I believe it has to do with the injector duty cycle, amongst other things, which prevents us from taking advantage of full e85. Because of this, I know it causes the vehicle to run lean when tuning to run full e85. I know D-rob has covered this many times in our FB group, and on here. Additionally, I know vitviper covered the same in his blog, but, his page is gone.

Most vehicle's ive seen that use e85, run similar horsepower as a car that's tuned to run on a blend, using Ktuner. Which at this point, removes any positives of running full e85 and leaves you with a lean A/F, and issues with injectors down the road.

 

[BobbyA]

I believe it has to do with the injector duty cycle, amongst other things, which prevents us from taking advantage of full e85. Because of this, I know it causes the vehicle to run lean when tuning to run full e85. I know D-rob has covered this many times in our FB group, and on here. Additionally, I know vitviper covered the same in his blog, but, his page is gone.

Most vehicle's ive seen that use e85, run similar horsepower as a car that's tuned to run on a blend, using Ktuner. Which at this point, removes any positives of running full e85 and leaves you with a lean A/F, and issues with injectors down the road.

Thanks, I'll keep an eye on this. Right now I'm at 65% "Especial E" but that's because of the winter blend at the pump. I did datalog on my commute to work yesterday and I do see in a couple areas/rpm ranges/cam angles that I am running a little lean according to the lambda overlay. I've made a 10% adjustment to add more fuel in those ranges where it occurred and saved the calibration. I'll do this few times and see where it goes (before summer when the e85 pump becomes more of a true 85%. If I'm running lean at that point - I'm curious, is there any options for larger Injectors, fuel pump?

I did some reading, Honda is selling the Civic 10th GEN, in Brazil where they exclusively use e85 at the pump. I wonder what they have configured in those models? I bet that is part of the reason why our U.S. Civics came with the Fuel Lines and internals that are already Ethanol compliant.

I appreciate the insights and welcome more dialogue on this...

 

[BobbyA]

Full E85 is just bad lol with our stock fuel system. You are more than welcome to run it and clog your injectors and run +13.1 afr. Not worth taxing your fuel system to the point of misfire and tuner Derek Robinson said

Sorry that's just not true. The fuel lines on the vehicle are all labeled for e85.

 

[BobbyA]

As a rule of thumb to those that are getting our flex kit, you'll want to blend your pump gas with ethanol (Typically ~8gal of 93 and ~3gal of ethanol). The car will not give additional power above e-40. Please let us know if you guys have any further questions regarding the flex kit, thanks!

Gotta burn off some of the e85 *

As a rule of thumb to those that are getting our flex kit, you'll want to blend your pump gas with ethanol (Typically ~8gal of 93 and ~3gal of ethanol). The car will not give additional power above e-40. Please let us know if you guys have any further questions regarding the flex kit, thanks!

I've since added 4.7 gallons of 93 gasoline, coupled with the e85 (65% winter formula) that should put me around e47 if I'm not mistaken? Have you seen anything regarding larger fuel injectors, pump? Just curious what is out there...

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