Need Impressions From Drivers w/Stock Camber Value Changes

[CyberCT]

Before jumping into the SI, I owned an RSX for 9 years. Stock camber values were -0.5 front, -1.5 rears. Even with suspension, cassis bracing, and upgraded rear swaybar, it still understeered. I had an alignment done that swapped front & rear camber values and this was the final suspension related piece that was needed. The RSX handled amazingly well. It was perfect.

While the stock SI handles impressively good it does understeer. I'm upgrading my rear sway bar and chassis bracing and want to do the same camber swap. However, I understand the suspension setup is different from the RSX and don't know how much value it will add. I'd have to buy camber arms (rear) & camber ball joints (front).

From various alignment before/after sheets posted on this forum, it seems the SI and other trims (except TypeR which has different front suspension & -1.5 fronts) are close to -0.5 front, -1.5 rears in stock form.
I also read one user that had -1.0 camber up front had to keep his car straight on the highway because it wanted to wander. I didn't have that issue on the RSX and I wonder why.

Who has done actual camber adjustments on their Civic, what camber settings did you end up with, and please provide input as to understeer/oversteer/ highway wandering, etc.

Sponsored

 

[bangminah]

I imagine others into autocross and road racing have the same specs as me, or even higher front camber if possible. My Meister R coilovers max out at -2.3 unfortunately.

This is mainly for the extra grip and contact when cornering, not that helpful for daily driving but not detrimental either. I can't say I've noticed anything different compared to 0 camber on daily driving. Even with this alignment, a Type R rear sway bar, and the coilovers (6kg front and rear), understeer is still present (I want to say by quite a lot!) but you're more likely to induce rotation when you want to. That experience was all on the factory LX 16x7 alloys. I've started to run a reverse stagger set up, so the camber also helps tuck my 255's a bit in more.

 

[wEaK Squad]

I’m currently running -1.80 (f) and -1.75 (r) and it tracks perfectly straight. Zero tow front and .1 in in the rear. Feels very neutral when cornering.


Have you tried disconnecting the front sway bar or adding a type r eibach rear bar? To help combat the understeer

 

[CyberCT]

I’m currently running -1.80 (f) and -1.75 (r) and it tracks perfectly straight. Zero tow front and .1 in in the rear. Feels very neutral when cornering.
Have you tried disconnecting the front sway bar or adding a type r eibach rear bar? To help combat the understeer

I've read multiple people's impressions that putting the TypeR swaybar on made the car feel more unstable and upset over bumps and they went back to stock. Others say it was fine. I don't want massive oversteer, just less understeer for a more neutral cornering feel (like my RSX). The SI's stock swaybar is 18mm. TypeR's is 20.5mm. I bought a 19mm swaybar which equates to roughly 30% more stiffening in the rear from the table found somewhere on this forum (I can search and link to the table later). With -1.5 camber up front, I did eventually get uneven tire wear and some tramlining. Wonder if -1.0 in front would be a good balance.
I also am aware that turning a screw into the strut mounts can get additional 0.3 degree camber +/- but that's not enough IMO.

 

[bangminah]

Have you tried disconnecting the front sway bar or adding a type r eibach rear bar? To help combat the understeer

We've disconnected the front sway bar for a slow paced track actually, and my friend was close to matching his times on his 9th SI when he was driving my car despite the lack of an LSD and proper tires! I'm under the impression that the front sway bar is necessary for high speed stability though for larger road courses. I'm hoping 255/225 stagger will absolutely mitigate understeer, and it sure as hell feels amazing already.

I've read multiple people's impressions that putting the TypeR swaybar on made the car feel more unstable and upset over bumps and they went back to stock. Others say it was fine. I don't want massive oversteer, just less understeer for a more neutral cornering feel (like my RSX). The SI's stock swaybar is 18mm. TypeR's is 20.5mm. I bought a 19mm swaybar which equates to roughly 30% more stiffening in the rear from the table found somewhere on this forum (I can search and link to the table later). With -1.5 camber up front, I did eventually get uneven tire wear and some tramlining. Wonder if -1.0 in front would be a good balance.
I also am aware that turning a screw into the strut mounts can get additional 0.3 degree camber +/- but that's not enough IMO.

A stiffer sway bar is essentially making the left and right axle more linked, so it's not surprising that the car would feel more upset over bumps but I did not find it to be as unpleasant as those users did. If you're reducing camber in the front and keeping the negative in the rear, you're going to have more grip in the rear tires and more likely to understeer. I don't think camber wear is an issue so long as you're on top of your tire rotations. Try zeroing out your toe in the rear as well for a bit more rotation. Chris from RedShift is well known in the 8th/9th Civic communities for his suspension knowledge, check out his article on alignment settings for an idea. Even then, his race settings are pretty conservative to the autocross/road racing enthusiasts.

 

[CyberCT]

I wonder if I just install rear camber arms and reduce rear camber to -0.5 while just doing the front strut camber adjustment to gain -0.3 camber would yield a more oversteering result?

 

[bangminah]

I wonder if I just install rear camber arms and reduce rear camber to -0.5 while just doing the front strut camber adjustment to gain -0.3 camber would yield a more oversteering result?

Only one way to really find out. I don't think that would induce or encourage oversteer at all though, it seems rather mild to me.

 

[CyberCT]

I honestly thought this thread would have exploded with thoughts and impressions on one of the hugest aspects of handling. Am I in the wrong forum? lol

 

[bangminah]

I honestly thought this thread would have exploded with thoughts and impressions on one of the hugest aspects of handling. Am I in the wrong forum? lol

I wish there was more input on this as well, but I'm convinced that a very strong majority of this platform is only focused on straight line performance and enhancements. Camber is just a tool for wheel fitment for a majority.

 

[L8apex]

Guess I’ll share my experience/conclusions. I have a manual Sport hatch, stock wheels and tires, stock springs and dampers. Also have the front Whiteline swaybar (set to soft) and the rear Whiteline bar (set to stiff). The Whiteline rear toe control links that I use to adjust my rear camber. Here are my most recent alignment specs:

I like to push the suspension and really lean on it, having full confidence. But the other day, on a familiar road, I felt the back end step out and the VSA activation light come on. Now the tires are no way near worn with only 25,000 miles on them.

I guess this should be no surprise given the swaybar setup I have. But I’m thinking of giving myself more negative rear camber, maybe to the -1.57 max spec. I figure with the overall roll stiffness my car currently has, the stock static camber setting is approaching 0 or positive camber while cornering. I could also go to the softer setting on the rear bar.

Unfortunately, the real fix for this is stickier tires but I haven’t planned (or budgeted) for that until I get new rims. I was also planning on lowering on maybe Prokits but I think I’ve gone a little too far limiting my suspension’s compliance to go any further without upgrading tires.

 

[L8apex]

Just for kicks, here are the camber specs for the various Civic models. Judging by that, and knowing what we know about the Si and CTR suspensions, I’m gonna guess that the neutral/oversteer handling is built into the suspension tuning, but needs to be “reigned in” by the alignment settings with increasing negative camber as the suspensions get stiffer:

 

[CyberCT]

Well I ended up buying the SPC fr0nt ball joints that add instant -1 degree camber and the K-tuned rear camber adjustment kits. Sent an email to my local shop asking them to install and do the alignment I want. (-1.2 up front ... rear -0.5?). I have a 19mm swaybar. I wanted just a little more stiffness than stock 18mm. Hope to have them installed Christmas week when I'm home.

https://www.kseriesparts.com/SPC-67381.html
https://www.kseriesparts.com/KTD-RUR-167.html

 

[DarkLight]

Well I ended up buying the SPC fr0nt ball joints that add instant -1 degree camber and the K-tuned rear camber adjustment kits. Sent an email to my local shop asking them to install and do the alignment I want. (-1.2 up front ... rear -0.5?). I have a 19mm swaybar. I wanted just a little more stiffness than stock 18mm. Hope to have them installed Christmas week when I'm home.

https://www.kseriesparts.com/SPC-67381.html
https://www.kseriesparts.com/KTD-RUR-167.html

19mm is nowhere near stiff enough IMO. The 20.5mm Progress bar I’m running is not nearly stiff enough, even with my tiny LX front sway. Understeer is still very much present.

For camber, I’ve got -1.5 rear , -1 front. I won’t go any further since I daily my Civic. I believe the limiting factor in getting the car to rotate is the rear sway bar, not camber.

I used to race a mk4 VW NB, and a fairly standard practice for those is to remove the front bar entirely, then add very stiff rear bars. I had a 25mm rsb, 16k front, 18k rear, camber -2F/-3R, all metal bushings... That car would rotate!

Now I don’t think that’s necessarily the right approach for the Civic. I think it needs some front bar, but most people simply aren’t using enough rear bar IMO.

I wish there was more input on this as well, but I'm convinced that a very strong majority of this platform is only focused on straight line performance and enhancements. Camber is just a tool for wheel fitment for a majority.

There’s not much of hardcore segment with the 10th gen community. It’s why I quit posting here for a long time.

Can’t count the number of times I rolled my eyes every time someone said that a ctr rsb made their otherwise stock car “oversteer” lol!

 

[BarracksSi]

For camber, I’ve got -1.5 rear , -1 front.

That's half your problem right there -- too much rear camber. Change it to zero.

I could also say you might be pushing too hard at corner entry, but you've probably got more experience than I do since you mentioned your VW.

There’s not much of hardcore segment with the 10th gen community. It’s why I quit posting here for a long time.

I haven't kept tabs on who's who, but have you spent time in the track/auto-x/HPDE subforum?

 

[DarkLight]

That's half your problem right there -- too much rear camber. Change it to zero.

I could also say you might be pushing too hard at corner entry, but you've probably got more experience than I do since you mentioned your VW.

I haven't kept tabs on who's who, but have you spent time in the track/auto-x/HPDE subforum?

-1.5 isn’t that much IME, and the benefits outweigh the downsides. The car will have more cornering grip and more heat in the rear tires, which is a problem for me in the winter.

I think that -1.5 is the sweet spot for my setup, but I’m going to get it realigned at -1.2, -1, -.8 and test it out.

I also like to dial in oversteer characteristics with rear toe, a little bit of negative toe in the rear can help rotation.

IIRC late 2016, which is when I was referring to, there wasn’t much going on. Clear side markers and lip kits were all rage lol.

Sponsored