My Type R Christmas Eve-Eve Test Drive (Long read)

[S2k_Dude]

The golf r starts at $39,300 and the s3 starts at $43,600.
The S3 has a better AWD system, a better transmission(seven speed s-tronic dual-clutch vs vw's 6 speed dsg) better handling and a more premium interior. A few years back, you may have been right. But now, the audi is worth the extra $$$!

But if you'd prefer a hatch over a sedan, you have many great choices. Not sure how the accord fits that mold. If fwd is acceptable and you prefer hatchbacks, why not a GTI? It's a practical car that'll offer more fun than the accord.

As far as I have been told, and read, both the S3 and Golf R use the same Haldex AWD system, and for 2018 the Golf R gets the 7-spd DSG box. You need to step up to the S4 before you get the Quattro AWD system in the S-line.

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[jdmorangefever]

They dont call it haldex anymore its the borg warner clutch or whatever. But yeah a3/s3/tt is like that. New s4 has the cool rear diff decoupler now

 

[callmehandsum]

Hmm, pretty strange read. Don't know why I read the whole thing. Very different cars that only have in common the ability to transport more than two people at a time. But I see the appeal of both. One is meant to terrorize tracks and pickup groceries. The other is meant to transport people in comfort. Both are very good at doing what they're meant to do. That Accord is a beaut! Btw, did you consider the Kia Stinger?

 

[Blackhat]

one is like driving a boat the other is like driving a motorcycle

 

[lawl]

Hmm, pretty strange read. Don't know why I read the whole thing. Very different cars that only have in common the ability to transport more than two people at a time. But I see the appeal of both. One is meant to terrorize tracks and pickup groceries. The other is meant to transport people in comfort. Both are very good at doing what they're meant to do. That Accord is a beaut! Btw, did you consider the Kia Stinger?

It’s a car shuffle game basically. I am going through the same thing. I have a Miata and a Camry and a beater Celica. I’m deciding between the model 3 and the ctr. In a vacuum it’d be ridiculous to compare the 2, but I have other cars. Get the ctr , sell the Miata. Get the model 3, sell the beater celica. In the end for me it boils down to what becomes accessible to me first. Obviously a 10k ADM is going to make the non CTR choice look much better.

Honestly the CTR would not be able to replace a fun rwd roadster so that makes the choice a bit harder

 

[S2k_Dude]

one is like driving a boat the other is like driving a motorcycle

Funny, I sold my motorcycle late last year to clear space in my garage for whatever I decided to buy.

I don't know if you've ever owned a motorcycle or a boat, but the Type R and Accord Sport 2.0T are much closer in performance that you might think, unless you take them to the track, otherwise both do great as daily drivers with more than enough performance for the street.

 

[S2k_Dude]

Hmm, pretty strange read. Don't know why I read the whole thing. Very different cars that only have in common the ability to transport more than two people at a time. But I see the appeal of both. One is meant to terrorize tracks and pickup groceries. The other is meant to transport people in comfort. Both are very good at doing what they're meant to do. That Accord is a beaut! Btw, did you consider the Kia Stinger?

I looked at the Stinger, didn't drive one. Kia is not known for their resale values, so paying an extra $10k for a Stinger 2.0T RWD car with slightly lower performance numbers and fewer features than the Accord, really didn't appeal to me. If you look at the Stinger GT, it does have great performance numbers, but the cost is $50k for the model I would want, which is out of my budget. The Kia Stinger GT would be a better car to pick up a year old for probably around $38k.

 

[S2k_Dude]

So here is a post about someone who took the Accord 2.0T and the Civic Type R and put them on the same dyno. Results are what I expected given what I've seen posted other places, the CTR has about a 10% power advantage (36hp/32 lb-ft) over the Accord, and we know there's a slight weight advantage.

Dyno Results

Also, HERE is a good write up on what makes the Accord 2.0 and Type R engines similar but different. Each version of the 2.0T engine is designed for a specific purpose. It's interesting to see how Honda made them specific to the task.

The CTR also has better brakes that are good for track duty, and front suspension that has little to no torque steer. Those are nice advantages for the Type R for the extra $4k difference in MSRP (but in reality it's $8k difference in my purchase price). Again, the Accord gives me 90% of the performance along with more comfort so that's why for me, in everyday driving, keeping my S2000 and buying the Accord was the better choice. I hope to take delivery of the 2018 Accord Sport next week.

Again, thanks everyone for their comments. I'll be keeping an eye on this forum but probably wont' be posting much, if I don't own a CTR or plan on buying one, there's not much I can add to the conversation.

 

[Mick the Quick]

So here is a post about someone who took the Accord 2.0T and the Civic Type R and put them on the same dyno. Results are what I expected given what I've seen posted other places, the CTR has about a 10% power advantage (36hp/32 lb-ft) over the Accord, and we know there's a slight weight advantage.

Dyno Results

Also, HERE is a good write up on what makes the Accord 2.0 and Type R engines similar but different. Each version of the 2.0T engine is designed for a specific purpose. It's interesting to see how Honda made them specific to the task.

The CTR also has better brakes that are good for track duty, and front suspension that has little to no torque steer. Those are nice advantages for the Type R for the extra $4k difference in MSRP (but in reality it's $8k difference in my purchase price). Again, the Accord gives me 90% of the performance along with more comfort so that's why for me, in everyday driving, keeping my S2000 and buying the Accord was the better choice. I hope to take delivery of the 2018 Accord Sport next week.

Again, thanks everyone for their comments. I'll be keeping an eye on this forum but probably wont' be posting much, if I don't own a CTR or plan on buying one, there's not much I can add to the conversation.

Before you leave, you must post your personal experience and impression of the Accord vis-a-vis the CTR!!!!!

 

[droidekaus]

OP, congrats on the incoming car! Sounds like you’ve thought this through very thoroughly and made the right decision for YOU which is the only thing that really matters. I also think you’re still in love with that Stook and couldn’t bear to part with it which is understandable. I owned a factory-ordered C7 Z51 Stingray for a period of time and while I loved the way it looked and my build, I was somewhat of an early adopter and the dealer network couldn’t reliably be trusted to change the oil in the cars with the dry sump tank for well over a year and I had to do that on my dime (regardless of the free 24-month service) for peace of mind. My experience with GM and the dealer network was gross and the quality of my particular vehicle was suspect from day one. Looked amazing, drove like a beast, but I unloaded it early to preserve what equity I had in it and haven’t looked back. You have to be pretty committed to jump into corvette culture and I clearly wasn’t. Lots and lots of apologists. I’d wait for the depreciation to hit rock bottom and then pick up a garage queen if that car still interests you in a year or so.

I too tried to purchase a CTR last year between August and October and had no luck getting the local dealers to budge off of the $5K ADM. No test drives and some didn’t even want you to sit in them. I’m 48 and LOVE the look of the CTR and DGAF what people think of me, or the cars I purchase, so I was somewhat committed to chasing one down. I’m also an impulsive car buyer with a short attention span and eventually lost sight of the CTR because I refused to pay ADM on a Honda.

Over Thanksgiving, I set my sights on an RS 3, visited a brand new dealer the week after and asked about allocations. They didn’t have any and weren’t even sure when they’d get one, but they took me very seriously and managed to divert an RS 3 from port headed to a Tulsa dealer by trading out inventory. Three weeks after my initial conversation with them, the car arrives, I pop in and they throw me the keys and tell me to, “Have fun.” Imagine that. A dealer allows me to test drive a $65K car (that is way rarer than the CTR at this point) that has just been PDI’d that day like it’s no big deal. Sure they’re super-stoked about getting in their first RS model period, but they don’t think it’s so precious they might not want me to look at it. I traded in my Challenger and my V60 Polestar and took delivery of that vehicle on Dec 21 and I don’t regret a single thing, I’m sure similar to your feelings at the moment. It’s faster than my C7 and the tuning potential is immense, so I look forward to starting the build out and tune come Spring.

One of the dealers I had been working with just called me a couple of weeks back to tell me that they had a number of incoming cars and were ready to deal at only $2500 ADM. I told the guy I wasn’t interested because I had gone a different route. “What did you buy?”, he asked. “An Audi RS 3. I could have purchased TWO Type Rs for what I just paid for this Audi!”, I replied. “Oh. Ok. Well, if you know anyone looking for a great deal on a new Honda...” *CLICK*

Enjoy that new Accord! I still want a CTR and maybe I’ll find a garage queen in a year or so. Until then, eat a dick, Honda dealers.

 

[S2k_Dude]

Nice post droidekaus! I really did like the C7 but believe it's smarter to wait to purchase one, prices will continue to plummet, I mean used prices will take a hit when Chevy dealers are discounting 2017's but as much as $13,000. I can't say the fit and finish is worse than a Honda, let's just say it's different. Domestic cars just have a different overall feel, just like Japanese or German cars.

If the RS3 wasn't so damn expensive, I'l love to have one in my garage as well. The RS3 kind of has it all, performance, tech, safety, comfort, and all in a 4-door sedan. Although if Audi sold the RS3 Avant in the states, it would also be a great hot hatch! Congrats on your purchase!

I am so with you on what the dealers are doing to the CTR. My wife and I stopped in a Honda dealer in Jacksonville back in November and they had their CTR roped off, a sign saying "Not for Sale" and would not let anyone get near it, not even if you wanted to put your name on their stupid list to be contacted "if they ever get another one." So ridiculous, almost made me switch brands, and if it wasn't for the Accord Sport 2.0T, I probably would have purchased something else, maybe the Golf R.

 

[Mick the Quick]

Well, even before Type R, Honda dealers were notorious for their unsavory sales tactics. . . . more so than other dealers. With CTR, they kicked it up a notch (well, many of them).

 

[avusblue]

Nice post droidekaus! I really did like the C7 but believe it's smarter to wait to purchase one, prices will continue to plummet, I mean used prices will take a hit when Chevy dealers are discounting 2017's but as much as $13,000. I can't say the fit and finish is worse than a Honda, let's just say it's different. Domestic cars just have a different overall feel, just like Japanese or German cars.

If the RS3 wasn't so damn expensive, I'l love to have one in my garage as well. The RS3 kind of has it all, performance, tech, safety, comfort, and all in a 4-door sedan. Although if Audi sold the RS3 Avant in the states, it would also be a great hot hatch! Congrats on your purchase!

I am so with you on what the dealers are doing to the CTR. My wife and I stopped in a Honda dealer in Jacksonville back in November and they had their CTR roped off, a sign saying "Not for Sale" and would not let anyone get near it, not even if you wanted to put your name on their stupid list to be contacted "if they ever get another one." So ridiculous, almost made me switch brands, and if it wasn't for the Accord Sport 2.0T, I probably would have purchased something else, maybe the Golf R.

I'm kind of in the same boat with you, I've always been a fan of Honda, but the markup and honda dealers being arrogant about the CTR really turns me off. I have given up searching for CTR at MSRP and I'm actually really interested in 2018 Camaro SS 1LE, I've seen dealership sells them as low as 38-39k which is such a bargain for what you get VS CTR, I wonder what you didn't like about it? did you test drove the 1LE mode? I would probably still choose the CTR if it's going to be the only car, but I love driving my truck as DD.

 

[droidekaus]

Well, even before Type R, Honda dealers were notorious for their unsavory sales tactics. . . . more so than other dealers. With CTR, they kicked it up a notch (well, many of them).

Correct. They’re a different kind of scum in matching polos than domestic dealers. I’ve owned a number of Hondas over the years that we’re utilitarian and not sig-worthy, but I am a fan boy. The best deal I ever extracted from a Honda dealer was when they couldn't give away the EP Si. I snagged an MY03 Si Hatch in a zero-down lease at $129/mth for 36 months. That car was a dog, but still fun and cheaper than the gas I needed to fuel my 350Z on my 60 mile RT commute.

 

[droidekaus]

I'm kind of in the same boat with you, I've always been a fan of Honda, but the markup and honda dealers being arrogant about the CTR really turns me off. I have given up searching for CTR at MSRP and I'm actually really interested in 2018 Camaro SS 1LE, I've seen dealership sells them as low as 38-39k which is such a bargain for what you get VS CTR, I wonder what you didn't like about it? did you test drove the 1LE mode? I would probably still choose the CTR if it's going to be the only car, but I love driving my truck as DD.

Those new SSs are handsome cars and the LT1 is a GREAT power plant. I see a blue SS w/black wheels around here often and always throw it an admiring glance. Since you’ve got a DD and don’t have to manage summer/winter wheels, go for it!

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