Motortrend tested the 2020 civic SI

[charleswrivers]

Charles, I always thought you disliked black rims?

In terms of my thinking that 0-60 tends to be a poor way to gauge real world performance, here's an interesting read:

https://www.autoblog.com/2016/09/02/zero-0-60-mph-performance-is-overrated

I’ll take a look. I think I’ve seen it before as the title is familiar.

I just err on the 0-60 being what I’d consider quick because my 1st and 2nd throttle stabs from a stop with a turn here at speed is pretty much the limits of my fun.

I see a lot of claims in this site about how this person or that person was able to pull away from a 350z or Charger R/T while running a tune approaching or above triple digit speeds. That’s great and all... it just has no bearing on how I’d drive the car.

The car with the lower 0-60... or even lower 1/4 mile time, despite a comparatively slow trap speed would be the car I’d objectively pick as the one who’s performance would be best used by myself, if nothing else about the car was to be considered. These Tesla’s rolling around that’ll do ~3 sec 0-60, to me is stupid quick. Even if they top a top speed of only 100 MPH, it’d be great. I’ve never had my car up to 100. Lame... but that’s me. If I regularly drove on the interstate and (or) was willing to greatly exceed the speed limit... or tracked my car, my feelings might be different.

I was over my ‘15 at 2 years in though. This car is still scratching my itch. I hope it’ll continue to do so. I really like the idea of passing this car to the oldest in 6-7 more years and letting the Odyssey go around the same time, as it’s age and mileage would condone its second timing belt by then... buying the wife something new and getting myself an older (6-10 year old) nicer car to play with for a few years.

I’ve fancied an electric car on and off, especially for where they perform well. Tesla’s number on the road have equaled, in my eye, Oldsmobile’s at this point. Them having ‘made it’ was kind of around me seeing them more than Saturns/Pontiacs. I live in a poorer area... so that definitely drives that metric... but they’ve got a long way to go to beat out even those brands that have been gone for a decade this year. I’m just not interested in being an early adopter and still think that’s the period we’re in.

As to the black rims... you’re right, I kind of like chrome/silver/aluminum-esk unpainted stuff better. The spokey design itself on the ‘20s, to me, looks better and on my red with a lot of black trim accents, I think it’d look a bit better. I always think rims that show off rotors/calipers are better aesthetically... but that’s purely my taste. The ‘15 rims covered more up on that car... and didn’t care for them compared to my ‘18.

Sponsored

 

[FC3L15B7]

Slower 0-60 for the 2020? Car & Driver pulled a 6.3 and 14.8 with the 2017 Si w summer tires. They also pulled a .97 skidpad. Which is really impressive for a sport compact at this price.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15091840/2017-honda-civic-si-coupe-test-review/

Someone isn't driving the thing right

There are a lot of variables, really. I'm hoping C&D retests with the same driver their tested the previous Si in conditions as close to the original as possible.

 

[FC3L15B7]

6.8 is a weak 0 to 60 though

It's not really that bad. Sub 7-seconds for a car with heated seats, 6 airbags and all the other crap to meet government regulations that makes it 300 pounds heavier than it would otherwise be isn't that bad. You can look at old sub compacts and see they are faster, but it's because they're just sheet metal boxes without technologies that add a lot of weight. On the other hand, it means no creature comforts and higher injuries/death. I'm okay with a 7-second 0-60 given how much you get with the car.

 

[arpypat]

I agree with most of the posts in this thread. The gearing was probably changed to make the car easier to drive smoothly. Shouldn't care about 0-60 times when it comes to $25k economy cars lol. Plus a 0.1-0.2 second difference is very negligible. Human reaction time is ~0.2 seconds...

If you like the 17-19 Si's more than the 20, so be it. If you like the 20 Si more than the 17-19s, it all good too. Everyone will find a way to justify their purchase

 

[FC3L15B7]

I thought the gearing change was all about second gear? Second is awkward at times in my 2019 ... I spend a lot of time tooling around town in that gear and it's a bit tall ... meaning when I slow down enough the engine chatters a bit ... You can't go to first ( since you get locked out ) so I would only guess that the 2020 is way more forgiving the novice.

In my 2020 I can re-engage 2nd at 10 kph without issue, but obviously I have to slip the clutch enough for it to engage smoothly.

 

[FC3L15B7]

I haven't driven the 2017-19 and 2020 back to back, but when I tested the older ones, they felt relatively gutless at low speeds. I didn't have that reaction to the 2020, and I wonder if it's because of the gearing. Doesn't seem like 6% should make that much of a difference in feel, but it would rev quicker, and thus build boost faster too. Who knows?

Also, I note the reviewer didn't spend much time in sport mode, which I think increases throttle response and may have addressed that complaint.

I totally agree with you about the rev hang. Folks gripe about it in the TSX too, and I have no issues. I've adapted very quickly to driving the new Si on test drives, and suspect it wouldn't bother me if I owned one. In fairness, I'm rarely driving hard when it might matter the most, but I do sometimes and it's never bugged me.

I can pull from 10 mph at 800 rpm without slipping the clutch or the engine getting rough, but in the 2017-2019 at that speed, it's more like 750 rpm. If I'm going to end up between gears, I just slow down more than I otherwise would have to, blip the throttle and slip the clutch in 1st to prevent it from bucking. You can slip in 2nd too at around 5 mph, but you have to slip the clutch longer, so I usually don't under 10 mph.

 

[FC3L15B7]

I’ve fancied an electric car on and off, especially for where they perform well. Tesla’s number on the road have equaled, in my eye.

"Tesla" is a 4-letter word to me. I'm a petrol head, not an electron jockey.

 

[charleswrivers]

"Tesla" is a 4-letter word to me. I'm a petrol head, not an electron jockey.

I’ve been a nuke electrician in the navy almost 1/2 my life now. Working on electric motors... generators... being in the battery well. It’s been my life. The idea of a car with a battery is like driving a submarine around with the reactor scrammed and running off the batteries. It has a strange... almost ridiculous appeal to me that it’d probably have to few other people. The fact that the batteries are so not-energy-dense they’re effectively only containing a few gallons of gasoline worth of energy yet can still go so far on it also shows that we’re some (immense albeit) battery improvements away from them being ready to supplant ICE cars while outperforming them.

Considering EV1, which everyone decried as being killed to save the oil industry, was kind of a POS novelty so far as it’s powertrain... rolling around first with lead acid batteries, then later NiMH packs back in the 90s... each with tiny capacities... if electric cars continue advancing at the rate they’ve been going over the last ~25 years... they really may be dominant before the middle of this century. We’ve got the electrical infrastructure and I’ve been surprised to see how quickly the charging stations have popped up to provide early support to allow long distance travel. It’s not perfect... but it’s there... and I figured when Tesla was an upstart that would be it’s fatal flaw and would become a footnote in history... and again with all their money woes but they refuse to die.

I do love ICE cars too and it’d be sad to see them go. I’ve kept my Z a good 5 years or more and turns 26 this year.

I’m concerned about doing battery change outs... I’ve done them several times on boats and while I’m not intimidated by it... the cost and ease in which it can be done right now is prohibitive. Batteries are still wear items... and the initial cost of the cars themselves are too high. Nothing lasts forever and they’ve got to make the cars modular enough to do the change with the batteries inexpensive enough (along with the cars themselves) to make them hit the tipping point. Projections last decade were overly optimistic... but I do think it’s coming well within my lifetime.

So... I keep reading about how things are coming along... and keep counting Pontiacs and Saturns vs Tesla’s until the day I’m playing Das-Boot-electron-jockey on the road. I doubt I’ll ever not be able to feed my old Z. Parts availability will kill it before any electric car.

 

[mjh]

It's all in what you're after... and every car is a compromise. I think, given the Si has class-leading fuel economy but was always a bang-for-the-buck car... the gamble to sacrifice a little economy for perceived acceleration, even if the numbers don't show it in this interest was a good one. The reviews of the '20s make it out to be an improved car. As good as gen 8 was when it came out in '06... it was starting to get panned a bit towards the end of it's run. CivicX is definitely in the last 1/2 of it's life and is still a pretty competitive option, going into it's 5th year. In this day and age w/the rapid drive-aid tech advances and all the noise of advances in ICE to make them more efficient... I still think the Civic as a platform and the Si as a trim is still towards the top of the heap. I wouldn't ever entertain trading out of my 1/2 paid off '18 with 22k miles for a '20... but I acknowledge that the '20, with some of it's tech, some forums reviews saying it's built a little tighter (my interior rattles embarrassingly bad... though I could likely take care of it myself, but I've yet to do so), and it's little performance tweaks, it aiming to be a better car in the last half of it's production cycle... and I think achieved it for about the same price point.

I do think the "bang for the buck" point is by far the best argument for the Si. I tend to have buyers remorse on all things big and small, but I'm nothing but glad I pulled the trigger. Three months in and the car has been flawless; I concur on the absence of rattles so far (fingers firmly crossed). From a features standpoint, the little tweaks to the 2020, particularly the addition of adaptive cruise, made the purchase a slam-dunk for me. I don't use it much, but it's great to have when doing a boring 90 mile shot down the Turnpike, and as I creep up in years (I'm in my 50s) I wanted a car which had that tech. I do wish Honda had put in the Accord infotainment, but so far it too has been working okay, given the lousy UI. It's exactly what I wanted -- a fun, reasonably quick manual daily driver, at a good price point, that should hold up for several years.

 

[Civics4Ever]

Im thinking they will find a way to have 2 separate battery packs that when one runs out the other takes over, and the dead battery will be charged while still driving.

 

[FC3L15B7]

I’ve been a nuke electrician in the navy almost 1/2 my life now. Working on electric motors... generators... being in the battery well. It’s been my life. The idea of a car with a battery is like driving a submarine around with the reactor scrammed and running off the batteries. It has a strange... almost ridiculous appeal to me that it’d probably have to few other people. The fact that the batteries are so not-energy-dense they’re effectively only containing a few gallons of gasoline worth of energy yet can still go so far on it also shows that we’re some (immense albeit) battery improvements away from them being ready to supplant ICE cars while outperforming them.

Considering EV1, which everyone decried as being killed to save the oil industry, was kind of a POS novelty so far as it’s powertrain... rolling around first with lead acid batteries, then later NiMH packs back in the 90s... each with tiny capacities... if electric cars continue advancing at the rate they’ve been going over the last ~25 years... they really may be dominant before the middle of this century. We’ve got the electrical infrastructure and I’ve been surprised to see how quickly the charging stations have popped up to provide early support to allow long distance travel. It’s not perfect... but it’s there... and I figured when Tesla was an upstart that would be it’s fatal flaw and would become a footnote in history... and again with all their money woes but they refuse to die.

I do love ICE cars too and it’d be sad to see them go. I’ve kept my Z a good 5 years or more and turns 26 this year.

I’m concerned about doing battery change outs... I’ve done them several times on boats and while I’m not intimidated by it... the cost and ease in which it can be done right now is prohibitive. Batteries are still wear items... and the initial cost of the cars themselves are too high. Nothing lasts forever and they’ve got to make the cars modular enough to do the change with the batteries inexpensive enough (along with the cars themselves) to make them hit the tipping point. Projections last decade were overly optimistic... but I do think it’s coming well within my lifetime.

So... I keep reading about how things are coming along... and keep counting Pontiacs and Saturns vs Tesla’s until the day I’m playing Das-Boot-electron-jockey on the road. I doubt I’ll ever not be able to feed my old Z. Parts availability will kill it before any electric car.

I'm in favour of nuclear energy, so long as they hire the right people. I know of people working for nuclear energy that are potheads and they change spent control rods. haha. I hope that doesn't come back to haunt us. But battery technology in electric cars - albeit a far cry from what they used to be - are still batteries. I'm more in favour of advancing HICEVs (hydrogen internal combustion engine vehicles for those reading and not sure what that is) in place of gasoline internal combustion.

I know it's not as clean as hydrogen fuel cell because the heat from combustion causes NOx, but I still prefer it because it goes vroom. haha.

Your Z car might not run out of general parts. It's pretty popular and lots of manufactures reproduce parts for old cars (especially muscle cars). I guess time will tell!

 

[charleswrivers]

I'm in favour of nuclear energy, so long as they hire the right people. I know of people working for nuclear energy that are potheads and they change spent control rods. haha. I hope that doesn't come back to haunt us. But battery technology in electric cars - albeit a far cry from what they used to be - are still batteries. I'm more in favour of advancing HICEVs (hydrogen internal combustion engine vehicles for those reading and not sure what that is) in place of gasoline internal combustion.

I know it's not as clean as hydrogen fuel cell because the heat from combustion causes NOx, but I still prefer it because it goes vroom. haha.

Your Z car might not run out of general parts. It's pretty popular and lots of manufactures reproduce parts for old cars (especially muscle cars). I guess time will tell!

It sharing a lot of that-eras Maxima parts has helped bolster the number of available parts. I had to have new AC lines fabricated as they weren’t available. I have the later solenoid based HICAS AW-steering subsystem, but the hydraulic HICAS lines for all the 90-93s are long since gone... so fixing leaks has made lots of folks do deletes. Sad, since AWS and how it made the rear end feel was kind of a characteristic of the car.
NOS adjustable dampers were bought a few years ago for a premium, but the adjustable suspension might not be able to be maintained and will likely be the first thing to have to go that’ll take away a bell and whistle the next time I replace them. I’ve put Tokico Luminas in the old Z31s twice, and could probably go that route or similar at a good price. The rebuilds on the Z31s suspension in the 90s was close the $2k from what I read... and never had the $$$ to even contemplate it, though those setups were kind of junk from the factory from what the reviews showed when the car was new.

(shrug) I don’t know. I just kind of hang on to the thing and enjoy it whenever I drive it. It’s not worth 1/2 the money I have in it... but I *have* it... and I guess that’s 99% of it all. Funny thing is, I bet my Civic Si could probably outhandle the car. It’s amazing how good a modern eco-box given the sporty treatment can be.

 

[FC3L15B7]

It sharing a lot of that-eras Maxima parts has helped bolster the number of available parts. I had to have new AC lines fabricated as they weren’t available. I have the later solenoid based HICAS AW-steering subsystem, but the hydraulic HICAS lines for all the 90-93s are long since gone... so fixing leaks has made lots of folks do deletes. Sad, since AWS and how it made the rear end feel was kind of a characteristic of the car.
NOS adjustable dampers were bought a few years ago for a premium, but the adjustable suspension might not be able to be maintained and will likely be the first thing to have to go that’ll take away a bell and whistle the next time I replace them. I’ve put Tokico Luminas in the old Z31s twice, and could probably go that route or similar at a good price. The rebuilds on the Z31s suspension in the 90s was close the $2k from what I read... and never had the $$$ to even contemplate it, though those setups were kind of junk from the factory from what the reviews showed when the car was new.

(shrug) I don’t know. I just kind of hang on to the thing and enjoy it whenever I drive it. It’s not worth 1/2 the money I have in it... but I *have* it... and I guess that’s 99% of it all. Funny thing is, I bet my Civic Si could probably outhandle the car. It’s amazing how good a modern eco-box given the sporty treatment can be.

Yeah, basically all fuel lines, brake lines, etc. will be long gone and have to be fabricated. You've referenced Z31 and HICAS, but HICAS is Z32 era. Do you have both a Z31 and Z32?

I personally wouldn't do the HICAS-delete. Those cars are going up in price and soon enough they're going to be selling at auction for big money in full working order Z32 TT HICAS car, but at least you have the electric HICAS, not the hydraulic system. I don't know if one worked better than other when fully functional, though. Personally, I've only experience the mechanical 4WS in the 88-91 Honda Prelude and it was very good. Then the 4th generation Prelude came along and they changed the 4WS system...not sure why.

 

[charleswrivers]

Yeah, basically all fuel lines, brake lines, etc. will be long gone and have to be fabricated. You've referenced Z31 and HICAS, but HICAS is Z32 era. Do you have both a Z31 and Z32?

I personally wouldn't do the HICAS-delete. Those cars are going up in price and soon enough they're going to be selling at auction for big money in full working order Z32 TT HICAS car, but at least you have the electric HICAS, not the hydraulic system. I don't know if one worked better than other when fully functional, though. Personally, I've only experience the mechanical 4WS in the 88-91 Honda Prelude and it was very good. Then the 4th generation Prelude came along and they changed the 4WS system...not sure why.

I have a Z32 now. I had another Z32 nearly 20 years ago, had it before and in my first year or so after I enlisted... and 2 other Z31s in there too (one in high school/college, one for 3-4 years between the first Z32 and this one)... not to mention a S30 (‘77 280z) for just a little while... maybe a yearly two. I actually had it and this one at the same time for a little while before I let it go. The 5-way adjustable Luminas went in both the Z31s after I got them.

My older one was a ‘90 but the hydraulic and electric setups give the same drive to me. Replacing solenoids seems more straightforward than lines. I know my ‘90 was a leaker and had to be topped off a couple times a month but PS fluid was cheap compared to getting reman lines or something made.

People have said the Zs would appreciate in value someday but I’ll believe it when I see it. As it is... it’s just a fun old car that seems to be getting a bit rare to see on the street. At around 100k miles and not-stock... though it pretty much looks it, it’d never be a car someone would pay a lot for. I don’t know... maybe in another decade or more if I still have it someone will make me an offer that’ll surprise me.

 

[FC3L15B7]

I have a Z32 now. I had another Z32 nearly 20 years ago, had it before and in my first year or so after I enlisted... and 2 other Z31s in there too (one in high school/college, one for 3-4 years between the first Z32 and this one)... not to mention a S30 (‘77 280z) for just a little while... maybe a yearly two. I actually had it and this one at the same time for a little while before I let it go. The 5-way adjustable Luminas went in both the Z31s after I got them.

My older one was a ‘90 but the hydraulic and electric setups give the same drive to me. Replacing solenoids seems more straightforward than lines. I know my ‘90 was a leaker and had to be topped off a couple times a month but PS fluid was cheap compared to getting reman lines or something made.

People have said the Zs would appreciate in value someday but I’ll believe it when I see it. As it is... it’s just a fun old car that seems to be getting a bit rare to see on the street. At around 100k miles and not-stock... though it pretty much looks it, it’d never be a car someone would pay a lot for. I don’t know... maybe in another decade or more if I still have it someone will make me an offer that’ll surprise me.

Makes sense you've had both. I agree 100,000 miles is a bit too much to get top dollar, but it should still go up a bit. If I could right now, I'd want a Z31 kouki because it's a little more modern and symmetrical without the single hood scoop, has the single light bar rear end and ditched the sealed beam headlights. For a Z32, I think the ultimate USDM is specifically the 1995 model year before they dropped the variable cam timing, it has the Super HICAS and the body style is slightly more modern. I've always liked the idea of a Z31 VG30DETT swap though.

I'll let you know if I win the lottery!

Sponsored