Mishimoto Civic Type R Oil Cooler R&D Thread

[Florence_NC]

All great questions!

So for the brake ducts, Honda put a ton of work into their aero to make sure that the airflow is going where it needs to go. The duct there is already forcing it into the factory ducting and out through the wheel well into the brakes. With that duct removed there's still enough of a pressure differential on the inside of the wheel well generally from the wheel spinning, and also thanks to the belly pan, that the airflow is still being pulled through there. Our bracket works as more of a guide for this airflow to make sure that it's still being pushed through the cooler. Though, it definitely would've been nice of Honda to give us a larger opening on that section of the bumper from the factory, but from what we've seen, there's still plenty of cooling air pushing through there.

-Nick

As someone with practical vehicle aero experience, I question the accuracy of your assessment of the brake duct function. Modern OEM vehicle design is all about efficiency, especially aero efficiency. Nothing gets to ride on a modern vehicle for free. If it is not accomplishing something, then it doesn't get a spot on the bus.

An opening in the front of a vehicle cost drag, so you can bet that the OEM did not place that opening there for nothing. Honda placed that brake duct there, with a decreasing cross-sectional area, to create a jet of air pointed at the front brake assembly. There is an additional turning vane on the steering knuckle to help direct that jet to its desired point of interaction. Honda did not spend either the financial capital nor the efficiency capital in this design for nothing. It was there for a reason, and removing it must reduce the function of the system at some level.

And while I agree that, with the duct removed, the natural high pressure area in front of the vehicle and the low pressure area inside the wheel well will still induce air movement. But there is no way possible that it is at the same volumetric flow rate as with the duct in place. It is just not possible.

Plus, the air that is passing through the duct opening is now preheated by the oil cooler, further diminishing the effectiveness of the brake cooling. It is not likely that this extra heat has a big effect since the brake temps are so much higher than the oil cooler temps, but when a system is functioning near its threshold, small changes can create tipping points in a systems functionality. So it can't be automatically ruled out that this could have a negative effect.

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[Florence_NC]

I agree that at first thought removing brake ducts was bad. On my own car my first oil cooler setup was large and required me to remove the drivers side brake duct, but for time attack it was not a concern. I had fresh rotors on and with temp paint on the rotors I saw no difference in temperatures between the inducted drivers side rotor and the ducted passengers side rotor.....so not too sure how much the ducts really do.

How long is the time attack run, is it long enough to actually see elevated brake temperatures? Brake systems have a large mass of material to heat up, so short run heat gain is primarily a function of mass. Long term heat gain is a function of both mass and cooling effects. A short run never gets to the part of the cycle where ducts make much difference.

And what temps of paint did you have? They are usually in big steps, like 100-150F or more per step. If that is what you have, then you are not able to effectively measure the difference with enough resolution to see small changes.

If you really want to know how much effect the ducts make, you need infrared sensors, properly calibrated, and long-term runs to see what the actual effect would be. And some wind tunnel work would be pretty informative as well. Anything short of this and you are just guessing without a lot of track time and long-term performance analysis.

 

[DPL8]

I have run extended session in practice and testing, don't just use the car for nothing but time attack. We use same rotor paint to monitor temps on GT3 cup cars, I used to work for a Porsche Motor sport team. As for alot of track time I am generally on track once a week sometimes twice. And have countless logs and notes and have taken infared temps of the rotors, calipers, etc while testing stock brakes as well as 2 different upgrade levels. True the testing could always go further and more in depth. I agree generally things have a function, but I have been told first hand by a Honda engineer from the CTR project that many features were left for aesthetics and styling when their true function was proven not to work in the real world.

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[Mishimoto]

Hey Guys,

I just wanted to bump this up and let you know that we're going to start shipping these out very soon! Still want to get in on the presale? Not to worry, we're going to keep this presale going a little while longer, but make sure you get in on the special pricing before it's gone!

-Nick

 

[.grimace]

Have you posted any results showing before and afters with oil temps?

 

[toraider]

Some #s from their Blog update:

https://www.mishimoto.com/engineering/2018/11/honda-civic-type-r-oil-cooler-results/

 

[.grimace]

Maybe I am retarded but

"The first step was to reproduce the fever that has become synonymous with the FK8, easily bringing the oil temps up to the 300°F range. After equipping our oil cooler kit, we saw a 15-18°F drop across the core, aiding in reducing the fever in the engine bay."

To me this just says the oil cooler itself aka "core'' saw drops of 15-18 degrees but what did the actual oil temps do? I would think they had a gauge hooked up and could say we saw max temps of 298 before and after the oil cooler we saw max temps of 260 or something quantifiable like that?

 

[Mishimoto]

Maybe I am retarded but

"The first step was to reproduce the fever that has become synonymous with the FK8, easily bringing the oil temps up to the 300°F range. After equipping our oil cooler kit, we saw a 15-18°F drop across the core, aiding in reducing the fever in the engine bay."

To me this just says the oil cooler itself aka "core'' saw drops of 15-18 degrees but what did the actual oil temps do? I would think they had a gauge hooked up and could say we saw max temps of 298 before and after the oil cooler we saw max temps of 260 or something quantifiable like that?

That's a great question! Sorry for the delay getting back to you on this, but we saw a drop of about 8-10°F in global oil temperatures during our test on the dynopacks

-Nick

 

[DPL8]

That's a great question! Sorry for the delay getting back to you on this, but we saw a drop of about 8-10°F in global oil temperatures during our test on the dynopacks

-Nick

why did you choose the placement for your oil cooler? what was the reasoning to not install it above the brake cooling ducts?

 

[Mishimoto]

why did you choose the placement for your oil cooler? what was the reasoning to not install it above the brake cooling ducts?

Great questions! As for the placement, there's honestly not many other places to go where a oil cooler would be effective. True, we could've mounted it front and center in the upper grill and show off more of those Mishi M logos, but given that this car already suffers from chronic fevers, we didn't want to obstruct the radiator any more. The driver's side brake duct was the next best option since there's a good amount of airflow hitting that area, and there's not much else in the way there.

The reason why we chose to remove the brake duct all together was for two reasons. The first is so we could fit our bigger 19-row cooler in there. The second reason is that we strive to design parts so that you don't have to do any cutting or permanent modification to your vehicle in order to install them. Granted, there are some cases where that happens, but if we can help it, we'll opt for keeping everything intact. If we designed this to also fit with the brake duct, it would require you to cut out vents in the front bumper, since we developed this cooler to draw in air from the opening for the duct work. It could never hurt to give a little extra flow to the cooler, but we didn't want that to be a requirement for installation.

Let me know if you have any other questions!

-Nick

 

[Mishimoto]

Hey Guys!

Just wanted to bump this up as a last chance for the discounted rate! Make sure that you get your presale orders in before we fully launch at 10am EST tomorrow!

-Nick

 

[jmartin]

Hey Guys!

Just wanted to bump this up as a last chance for the discounted rate! Make sure that you get your presale orders in before we fully launch at 10am EST tomorrow!

-Nick

Hello Nick,

When will these be shipping out? Taking off front clip to install Mishimoto Ic wanted to do this all in one shot.

 

[Mishimoto]

Hello Nick,

When will these be shipping out? Taking off front clip to install Mishimoto Ic wanted to do this all in one shot.

They're already shipping

-Nick

 

[jmartin]

They're already shipping

-Nick

Missed the sale couldn’t placed order at work.

 

[2018Gemini]

Any options for the 1.5 CVT?

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