MAPerformance Project SI Build Thread Extravaganza!

  1. MAPerformance

    MAPerformance Senior Member
    Elite Sponsor

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    Posts:
    544
    Thanked:
    1,012
    Occupation:
    MAP Brand Specialist
    Location:
    Cottage Grove, Minnesota
    First Name:
    Miguel
    Car(s):
    2017 SI Coupe


    Hey everyone! OK, I admit, this post is a bit late to the party. But things here have been moving so fast with this platform, that I just simply forgot that I wanted to do this. This thread is here to show you folks a behind the scene documentation of the all the product development, as well as trials and tribulations we encountered along the way. All the tuning, wrenching, welding, and breaking things. It's going to be a fun ride! Let's get onto it.

    Chapter 1:

    Objective: To generate compelling products and support for the new series of turbocharged Honda engines and platforms.

    Overview: To accomplish the above objective, we opted to start with the Civic Si. There are several key reasons that lead us to select the Si over the standard EX model.
    • We felt that enthusiasts would more quickly adopt performance modifications given the sportier optioned vehicles.
    • At the time of the original decision, no major company manufactured a compatible exhaust and we wanted to step up to the challenge of the center exit design
    • Not many “Legacy” Honda companies have adopted the 1.5t platform and therefore, the community needed more products to support their platform of choice.
    • Many technical aspects of the engine have not yet been uncovered, allowing us the ability to increase our knowledge and experience while learning about a new engine.

    Now that we have acquired the car, it's time to put it on the rollers and get some base line testing done!

    The factory SI is rated at 205 hp, and 192 lb/ft of torque at the crank. Surprisingly, these cars do seem to be a bit underrated from the factory, assuming the average 15% drive train loss typically found on a FWD platform. In stock form, our SI put down 200.6whp, and 195.9 wtq using our Dynojet dyno. Now that we have a good base line, it's time to see what we can do tuning wise, using completely stock hardware. There are two popular tuning options for these cars. Hondata, and K-Tuner. Ultimately, we decided to support both. This gives the customer an option to chose either option depending on their preference. After a few days of dyno and street tuning, here are the results we got on our bone stock SI using the K-Tuner with 93 octane fuel:



    Civic Si Stage 1 Beta OTS - Normal Mode: Max Power: 210.85 Max Torque: 246.20
    Civic Si Stage 1 Beta OTS - Scramble/Sport Mode: Max Power: 218.56 Max Torque: 256.98
    Civic Si Stock: Max Power: 200.62 Max Torque: 195.92

    As you can see, the peak numbers don't look extremely overwhelming, but there is a significant improvement in the mid range power and torque. This feels awesome on the street, in my opinion. Which brings us to our first hurdle. During the tuning session, the factory clutch was starting to slip on the last few pulls. It was obvious at the time that if customers plan to run even a "Stage 1" tune, an aftermarket clutch is going to be needed. Especially to support any more power in the future, which we plan to throw at it ;)

    We decided to go with the Clutchmasters FX250. This clutch should provide stock like pedal feel, with added torque holding capacity that we need. Now that we have a stronger clutch in place, it's time to start R&D on our hard parts (intake and downpipe), and "Stage 2" tuning to support them.

    We first started with the intake. As always, we wanted to continue with our traditional way of fabricating. Made in house in our facility located in Cottage Grove, Minnesota, using a CNC cut MAF housing, US made 304 stainless steel, and welded by some talented, sexy fabricators. We opted for a clever press method in which we were able to expand the tube to the correct internal diameter of the factory MAF housing design. This eliminates the need for a bulky, pricier billet piece coupled with silicone connectors to form a single, hydraulically efficient design.











    With the intake ready and installed, we can now begin working on the down pipe. We wanted our downpipe to be able to work with the stock heat shield, and still have room for the optional GESI cat. As with the intake, our downpipe is hand made from 3" 304 stainless steel, using CNC flanges, and a one piece mandrel bent tube. This also allows us to provide a lifetime warranty with all of our fabricated components. We are also going to include new turbo to downpipe studs just in case one were to break off. We found it was easier to simply replace them before installing the downpipe. These will be available in raw stainless, or ceramic coated.






    ******STAAAAGE TWO TIMEEEEEE******

    The Civic X is now equipped with our intake, 3" catless downpipe, and K-Tuner V1.2 using 93 octane. It's time to strap it back on the rollers, and begin the Stage 2 tuning process! During these runs, the OEM cat back was still in place.



    During testing, we found that with the stock tune, K.Control was increasing over a few runs (indicating tune/timing is too aggressive), so the power level was highest for the first run. But by the time K.Control increased from a default of 58%, to a stable 65% over the course of a few runs (inducing more timing reduction), therefore the power is lower each run. With the addition of our intake and downpipe, coupled with our Stage 2 tune, we found the K.Control was decreasing over a few runs from the default 58% down to 55%, indicating the original/prescribed tune/timing has headroom for the ECU to increase power. As such, the power level increased each run until it stabilized around 55%. All runs were done on the same vehicle, same fuel, same day/conditions etc.





    I suppose this is a good time to call it a day. But make sure to subscribe to this thread, as we have a lot more exciting development coming soon ;)

    Thanks for reading!
     
  2. OP
    MAPerformance

    MAPerformance Senior Member
    Elite Sponsor

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    Posts:
    544
    Thanked:
    1,012
    Occupation:
    MAP Brand Specialist
    Location:
    Cottage Grove, Minnesota
    First Name:
    Miguel
    Car(s):
    2017 SI Coupe
    During the beta testing phase, a customer reached out and was wondering if we had a smaller filter for our intake system. I will admit, our filter is on the hefty side, but it works great with the 6" velocity stack that we incorporate. This combo has worked very well for us in the past with previous intake designs. But we figured this would be a great opportunity to really find out if filter size, and design can actually make a difference. We went ahead and tested three filter sizes. Essentially, big, medium, and small.

    We did our best to ensure all test runs were as similar, and as realistic as possible. All runs on the same day, with no changes to our OTS Stage 2 file.

    Coolant temp- 175 degrees
    Starting IAT- 62 degrees
    KControl- 58

    To our surprise, run after run, it was confirmed that the larger filter had repeatable gains over the other filter options of around 7-9 whp. Thus, we have decided to continue production of the intake with the larger filter.

    * Large Filter Scramble Mode - Single Run: 230hhp/271tq
    * Small Filter Flat Top Scramble Mode - Two Runs, both lower on power and tq: 220hp/263tq and 218hp/259tq
    * Small Filter Cone Top Scramble Mode - Two runs, both lower on power and tq: 221hp/263tq and 215hp/259tq

    Re-Upload "Final Final v2.5" tune for sanity check

    * Small Filter Cone Top Scramble Mode - Two Runs, still lower on power and tq: 219hp/265tq and 219hp/264tq
    * Large Filter Scramble Mode - A few more runs in quick succession - more similar to original Power: 228hp/272tq, 221hp/264tq, 222hp/269tq.
    * Large Filter Scramble Mode - After a quick cooldown, similar power to original again - 227hp/272tq

    Dyno_Screenshot_-_Civic_SI_Air_Filter_Comparisons.png

    Stay tuned for more progress!
     
    jakabony and grumpyguy6 thanked this.
  3. OP
    MAPerformance

    MAPerformance Senior Member
    Elite Sponsor

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    Posts:
    544
    Thanked:
    1,012
    Occupation:
    MAP Brand Specialist
    Location:
    Cottage Grove, Minnesota
    First Name:
    Miguel
    Car(s):
    2017 SI Coupe
    *Reserved for future updates!*
     
  4. OP
    MAPerformance

    MAPerformance Senior Member
    Elite Sponsor

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    Posts:
    544
    Thanked:
    1,012
    Occupation:
    MAP Brand Specialist
    Location:
    Cottage Grove, Minnesota
    First Name:
    Miguel
    Car(s):
    2017 SI Coupe
    *Reserved for future updates!*
     
  5. grumpyguy6

    grumpyguy6 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2017
    Posts:
    403
    Thanked:
    401
    Occupation:
    IT
    Location:
    PA
    Car(s):
    2017 Civic Si sedan, 2018 Jeep Grand Cherokee Trailhawk
  6. OP
    MAPerformance

    MAPerformance Senior Member
    Elite Sponsor

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    Posts:
    544
    Thanked:
    1,012
    Occupation:
    MAP Brand Specialist
    Location:
    Cottage Grove, Minnesota
    First Name:
    Miguel
    Car(s):
    2017 SI Coupe
    #6 MAPerformance, Sep 12, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2018
    What you are seeing is some overlap in time lines, here... this was meant to bring you up to speed on the on the stage 1 while the first post you mention above was made during our attempts to move the vehicle into stage 2 testing. We didn't see any slippage or experience any problems into stage 1... but going beyond that, we started seeing slippage.... later, we found some indications that the flywheel might have been an issue, but even further on, we found some evidence that the pressure plate might have been a bit weaker than expected.

    You will have to factor in that this is all very "leading edge" or "at the moment" as products are continually being developed and we are in constant conversation with Clutchmasters.

    Right NOW, for single plate applications, my best recommendation is their FX400... I have not tried the 8 PAD kit but we have used the 6 puck system on their new Flywheel... and that kit drives and holds power amazingly. At the time of these notes, the FX250 was working for us... LATER gave us problems leading us to make a warning... then LATER found some new information to then even LATER discover that the FX400 was a really really good clutch... right now it is my favorite single plate pick.

    Thanks for the link to the previous post, tho... it should be edited.
     
    grumpyguy6 thanked this.
  7. OP
    MAPerformance

    MAPerformance Senior Member
    Elite Sponsor

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    Posts:
    544
    Thanked:
    1,012
    Occupation:
    MAP Brand Specialist
    Location:
    Cottage Grove, Minnesota
    First Name:
    Miguel
    Car(s):
    2017 SI Coupe
    Obviously, it's been a few months since we last posted up about our Civic progress. There is a lot of ground to cover, as we have done a lot of development both towards the end of racing our car AND with the intent of either developing or improving products for the platform. To keep the continuity of this thread on track, I will try to keep updates in line with anything we did to our car prepare it for the 2019 race season.

    When this build thread left off, we had extracted some pretty impressive results with the addition of our downpipe, and intake, netting 30.77 peak HP and a whopping 71.82 peak torque. Obviously, we had to replace the clutch well before stage 2 was even completed and this is where we sat almost a year ago... namely, a fun, enjoyable daily cruiser with all of the amenities of a modern car, but more of the torque and HP we would expect from a modern turbocharged car with obviously sporty heritage.

    It was around that time when we decided we wanted to get the car to the track and try our hand at drag racing this car. Our next series of concerns revolved around air flow... we knew we needed more turbo and we knew we needed the charge air to be cooler more efficiently so we started with the intercooler.

    Design objectives were as follows:
    Core size and fitment appropriate for a wide range of turbo sizes to accommodate a lot of CFM variation
    Our own billet end take design
    Completely compatible with stock/OEM piping connection locations
    Excellent performance and durability
    As we are not strangers to building intercoolers, we actually have custom intercooler cores produced for us, to our specification. This particularly intercooler core was selected for size and performance capability as we had previously used and tested it on another platform with great success. The core is not so big is to promote unnecessary pressure drop but it can support an estimated 450WHP.

    DSC_7504.jpg

    Next, we took to designing the end tanks. Our end tanks are actually designed and machined in house here at our facility in Cottage Grove, MN. These end tanks are machined from billet aluminum and carefully tig welded by our master fabricators before being polished and packaged for delivery.

    DSC_7506.jpg
    DSC_7505.jpg

    This particular intercooler design is the same intercooler that powered our Honda during our 2018 drag racing season. Please feel free to comment... ask questions or let me know if you have any feedback! These will be ready to ship very shortly but please, keep checking back for more updates as we have a lot of new parts and information to share!
     
    typemismatch, AREA and jakabony thanked this.
  8. Zcfc3dc5

    Zcfc3dc5 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2018
    Posts:
    184
    Thanked:
    163
    Occupation:
    Steel inspector
    Location:
    Wintersville Ohio
    First Name:
    Zach
    Car(s):
    2018 civic si, 2002 Acura rsx type s, 2011 Nissan Titan
    Damn it I should have waited
     
  9. OP
    MAPerformance

    MAPerformance Senior Member
    Elite Sponsor

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    Posts:
    544
    Thanked:
    1,012
    Occupation:
    MAP Brand Specialist
    Location:
    Cottage Grove, Minnesota
    First Name:
    Miguel
    Car(s):
    2017 SI Coupe
    Many new parts are on the way... no need to feel bad... we are on the verge of some really exciting new releases!
     
    herox thanked this.
  10. herox

    herox Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2018
    Posts:
    152
    Thanked:
    88
    Location:
    California
    Car(s):
    '18 Civic SI
    Looking forward to seeing what you guys have planned!
     
  11. OP
    MAPerformance

    MAPerformance Senior Member
    Elite Sponsor

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    Posts:
    544
    Thanked:
    1,012
    Occupation:
    MAP Brand Specialist
    Location:
    Cottage Grove, Minnesota
    First Name:
    Miguel
    Car(s):
    2017 SI Coupe
    We have a few things up our Sleeve :stirthepot:
     
  12. OP
    MAPerformance

    MAPerformance Senior Member
    Elite Sponsor

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    Posts:
    544
    Thanked:
    1,012
    Occupation:
    MAP Brand Specialist
    Location:
    Cottage Grove, Minnesota
    First Name:
    Miguel
    Car(s):
    2017 SI Coupe
    Robust enough for the track, Refined enough for the street.

    Some Maperformance drag car updates for you guys

    This shifter assembly is beyond amazing. Very excited for some test hits.

    We still have a couple in stock.

    acuity shifer.jpg

    acuity shifter1.jpg
     
    2tone, typemismatch and Zcfc3dc5 thanked this.
  13. OP
    MAPerformance

    MAPerformance Senior Member
    Elite Sponsor

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    Posts:
    544
    Thanked:
    1,012
    Occupation:
    MAP Brand Specialist
    Location:
    Cottage Grove, Minnesota
    First Name:
    Miguel
    Car(s):
    2017 SI Coupe
    Heres a little update on our MAP 10th Gen Project
    super excited for the products we will be releasing for this platform

     
    jakabony, 2tone, 86salmon and 1 other person thanked this.
  14. Papi_Shampoo SI

    Joined:
    May 17, 2018
    Posts:
    38
    Thanked:
    28
    Location:
    SOFLO
    First Name:
    JC
    Car(s):
    2018 Honda Civic SI Coupe
    I am so intrigued to see the outcome of the turbo kit and how it differs from the competitors. Especially the way that intake pipe is which is an eyesore.
     
  15. OP
    MAPerformance

    MAPerformance Senior Member
    Elite Sponsor

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    Posts:
    544
    Thanked:
    1,012
    Occupation:
    MAP Brand Specialist
    Location:
    Cottage Grove, Minnesota
    First Name:
    Miguel
    Car(s):
    2017 SI Coupe
    yea we put our own spin on it lol
     
Loading...

Share This Page

Loading...