Lug nut solution for NSX wheels solved!

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HRace

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I’ve talked with many NSX wheel owners on here. Some take them to the dealer using oem 22mm lug nuts with no problems (dealers must have sockets that clear, or one did at least). Another had a tire shop lightly scratch the wheel near the lug area from a socket that barely fit. Seems hit or miss to me. Are your new wheels going to be aftermarket? Those use tapered lug nuts almost all of the time so the OEM 22mm lug nuts shouldn’t be used as well as the Ti ones in this thread that are a ball seat. If you have a socket that works, I’d take it along to a shop and ask them if they’ll use it in case theirs won’t work.
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Thanks!! I am actually going with NSX wheels :) was curious how common the thin wall sockets are. I’m getting tires mounted at a shop so I’ll see if they have a socket that clears before I ask them to install on the car.
 
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First post updated with OEM Porsche Aluminum lug nut information.
 

DanZilla

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Thanks for the info! I've been looking for quality information like this. I need to place in my order for some!
 


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Hi Guys - thanks for the positive feedback. I’ve sold a bunch of sets to some very happy people here, and just wanted to say thank you. If you’d like a set reach out and I’ll take care of you!
Sorry I’m late giving my review of Danny’s product. They work great and complement the NSX Y spoke rims nicely. Very pleased. They look like they will stand up well.
 

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Quick Summary:
*Porsche lug nut seat is the same as Honda; Spherical Radius 14mm.
*Minimum closed end lug nut height needed: 25mm.
*Lug nuts in this thread use a 19mm socket, not 22mm like OEM. This is critical for use with NSX wheels that are designed around a 17mm socket to fasten the lug bolts. A 22mm socket fits very tight (or not at all) and you risk scratching the wheels during lug nut install/removal.
*There are many concerns discovered as I started ordering and measuring aftermarket lug nuts including wrong ball seat dimensions, incompatible dimensions (height) and poor quality. I was surprised at what I received in the mail. See below for full information.

Quick recommendation for NSX wheels:
The two all around best lug nuts for my situation were:
1) Titanium lug nuts ($260) from Ti Porsche products (info below, including $20 intro sale).
2) OEM Porsche Aluminum lug nuts ($240-$285) (info below).

Reference picture of OEM lug nut vs. Black NSX lug nuts solutions:

Comparo of R14 lugs.png


Like many here, I struggled to find a lug nut solution that would work for NSX wheels (ball seat, 19mm hex or smaller) and also work with the OEM wheels (must be black!!). Finding a lug nut that is a ball seat and then 100% confirming that it will actually work for our cars was difficult. I decided to prove to myself which lug nuts are dimensionally correct for a Civic Type R application. I ordered a full radius gauge and lug nuts from various vendors. I’ve worked for months communicating by email and phone with a lot of really nice companies who were happy to discuss the topic, describe their lug nuts (material, construction, surface finish), take measurements that they’d never had to consider before and generally, spend a lot of time when it didn’t yield a sale for them. I’ll start with a few quick summaries and then follow with a more detailed summary of each critical lug nut characteristic and a detailed summary of each lug nut / lug nut company I studied. I hope this helps many of you who want to understand the parts they put on their car and not just guess.

Concerns solved:
1) 19mm hex lug nuts for NSX wheels: OEM lug nut uses a 22mm socket which is very tight (if you can find a 29mm max O.D. socket at all). 19mm hex size is preferable. Aftermarket ball seat lug nuts are difficult to find and unknown if it’s dimensionally correct for the Type R.
2) Black lug nuts with ball seat for OEM wheels to get rid of the chrome appearance.

Decision matrix (quick visual summary): Circle = Good, Triangle = So So, X = Bad.
All lug nuts listed are 19mm hex socket.
Decision Matrix NSX Lugs 75.png


Here’s a picture of the lug nuts I ordered, the gauge I used to confirm the ball seat dimension, and the OEM wheel bolt to test for thread fit.

Equipment 1.jpg


OEM on the left:
Lug nuts measured 1.jpg



Detail on the characteristics of lug nuts that I studied:

BALL SEAT:
Both Honda and Porsche use a Spherical Radius 14mm ball seat. I started with a traditional small radius gauge. This was much more difficult to spot ball seat deviations since it’s only over such a small area. In theory, a lug nut seat could be R14 on the mating surface, but NOT a spherical radius 14. Spherical radius means it’s literally a ball with radius 14, maybe with a small flat machined into the bottom and then threads cut into it. Not just a mating surface with R14. I may have to sketch a picture later to explain the difference. Anyway, I ordered a full radius gauge from Starrett to measure each lug nut.
https://www.starrett.com/metrology/...-Hand-Tools/Precision-Measuring-Tools/167m-14
Porsche lug nuts for sale claim to be R14, M14x1.5 and on the gauge, I finally confirmed this to be true. The Honda OEM Civic Type R lug nut also matches R14 on the full gauge.

OEM lug nut on the gauge (spherical R14 100% confirmed):
Lug OEM.jpg


LENGTH: Minimum length of threads in any closed lug nut (for NSX wheels) is ~20mm. I wanted 3mm margin and then the top of the lug nut has some thickness (`2mm) so I targeted 25mm lug nut length. I was surprised at how many “short” closed lug nuts were offered for Porsche applications. One I really wanted to try was 20.7mm tall. When you factor in the thickness of the top of the closed lug nut, that would be too short to work.

MATERIAL: I spent a lot of time considering material. Honestly, I was not trying to achieve any weight savings in this area. The weight is so close to the center of the hub that, while a benefit exists, it’s small and wasn’t my top priority when considering all other factors of lug nut selection. ALUMINUM: I’ve run RAYS Duraluminum lug nuts for many years and have had at least 4 different sets. I’ve never had a failure using them. I was hesitant to consider Aluminum if it was from a manufacturer I didn’t know or one who didn’t provide much information in the description. TITANIUM: There is a lot of discussion about galling or titanium becoming stuck/welded to a dissimilar metal (steel wheel bolt). Of course, using Anti-Seize is also another strongly opinionated discussion on the internet. I believe that for typical street use (not changing wheels daily/weekly at the track) and without using an impact wrench at high speed (keep from adding heat to the lug nut while installing/ removing) that it should not be a problem (yes, with a light anti-seize application). Having said that, many of the lug nuts that are black, have a thin coating on the internal threads which act as a bit of a lubricant. STEEL: Same as OEM, basically no concern except a bit heavy.

Details of each lug nut / company that I studied:

Motorsports Hardware:

https://motorsporthardware.com/product/nuts-bolts/
This company was the one suggested to buy the tapered lug nut to ball seat adapter from, allowing the use of aftermarket lug nuts on OEM wheels. I thought I would start with them, especially since they 1) sold Porsche lug nuts and 2) sold them individually. I selected an open ended steel lug nut and then a closed ended aluminum lug nut. Steel lug nut: The steel lug nut was advertised as having a black zinc coating. It had unacceptable surface finish on the ball seat. I can’t tell if it’s clumped up coating or the steel has some odd machining. It’s very rough and hard and I would not tighten this down on any wheel I cared for. Then, to me, it does not fit on the R14 radius gauge. To my eyes, it looks less than R14. I made sure the gauge was not on any of the rough surface finish that would affect the fit. Once I saw this, I had doubts about any lug nut coming from them. To be fair, I did not contact them again to get their side of the story. I just wasn’t interested in saving money to have any concern about my wheels staying on or not having proper lug nut seating. Aluminum closed end lug nut: The title of the lug nut on their site was Porsche lightweight Alum racing nut. The aluminum lug nut looked great. Surface finish was nice, a glossy black finish. The lug nut fit well on the gauge. 2 things stopped me from considering this. 1) the steel lug nut from the same company was unacceptable so could I really trust this one? and 2) there was no further description on the website. Was it forged? What grade of aluminum? What was the coating? Of course I can guess at some answers, but at $128 a set, it’s not inexpensive and I don’t have any knowledge of the company to trust their reputation. Again, I didn’t call to try and get more information. It’s a shame, the lug nut looked good.
Steel surface finish:
Lug Motor Hardware Steel 1.jpg

Steel on the gauge (only line contact, not full surface contact, NOT R14):
Lug Motor Hardware Steel 2.jpg

Aluminum on the gauge:
Lug Motor Hardware Alum 1.jpg


Ti Porsche Lug nuts: *one of my recommendations*:
Danny (of Ti Porsche Products, contact info below), I've come to learn, is as picky as us CTR guys which has been great to see! He cares about all the small details as much as we do. Here's the thread where I originally found these:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/pors...032311-fs-titanium-lug-nuts-studs-v2-0-a.html
Danny had originally commissioned Titanium lug nuts to be made after becoming frustrated with what was available for sale elsewhere for his personal application (an older 911). Though not a Honda, he was really open to hearing what I wanted to investigate. He originally only ordered enough sets to bring cost to an acceptable level and sold off the few extra sets he had made. They caught on and now he has continued to have them made to serve the Porsche community. I asked Danny if there was any way to order 1 to measure and confirm it in person. I agreed to investigate an early prototype so he didn’t have to break up a set for sale, and to avoid me ordering and returning if I was unhappy. The lug nuts matched up to the Radius gauge perfectly and the height was more than enough for the Type R (32mm, min needed is 25mm). I had researched two other Titanium lug nuts in depth (World Motorsports, and Tikore) so I asked Danny the same questions I asked them. I knew from researching the other Ti lug nuts that I was basically willing to try Titanium if I could accept the price. Fortunately, Danny’s price was the cheapest of the 3 Ti lug nuts I was considering. The original forum post was from December of 2018. I read all 6 pages of the first thread and 2 pages of the 2nd opened thread. All happy customers of those who had purchased and no reported failures. Of course there were the anti titanium posters who had their points about galling etc. to consider. I hadn’t read of any failures from typical street usage about any of the lug nuts so I was willing to finally order a set. The specs that I was provided were as follows: Machined from Ti 6Al-4V (more commonly referred to as Grade 5 Titanium Alloy) forged rods that are cut down and machined. The threads are cut. The black is a PVD finish. It’s very durable, and also acts as a lubricant to minimize the chance of galling.

****EDIT: Ti Porsche Products (Danny) is offering $20 off the first 10 purchases to get impressions/installed pics posted****
($20 discount = $240 + $7.90 shipping = $247.90)

$260, 19mm hex, 32mm height, Black PVD Coating, Titanium 6Al-4V (Grade 5); 1.2 lbs (save 1.8 lbs over stock), Perfectly machined R14 spherical ball seat.
[email protected] (Danny is the contact / fanatic)
Instagram @Ti_Porsche_Products

Installation instructions: a dab of anti-seize, hand thread the lug nuts with final torque by a torque wrench.

Very careful packaging (as shipped from machinist). Danny does ship individually wrapped though:
Lug Ti Porsche Packaging.jpeg

Ti Porsche Lug nut on the gauge (100% perfect R14 fit!):

Lug Ti Porsche 1.jpg


Other finishes and configurations also available that I did not consider for my application but should also work. The open ended ones should shave extra weight. If you're already going Ti, why not! (wait...why didn't I ?!)
Lug Ti Porsche Lugs selection.jpeg

Pics of the purchased lugs in the NSX wheels:
NSX wheels Ti Lugs 1.JPG
NSX wheels Ti Lugs 2.JPG


Porsche OEM Aluminum *one of my recommendations*:
https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/99918200336.htm?pn=999-182-003-36-M260
Pelican came HIGLY recommended as a website that “doesn’t sell junk”. They had 3 different types of Aluminum lug nuts. 1. OEM Porsche, literally what you’d get if you walked into a Porsche dealer parts counter. Black Anodized aluminum. Pelican said it will scratch with use but not chip. 2. OEM lug nuts but in bulk packaging, not in the Porsche packaging. Supposedly the same manufacture as Porsche, but I found no way to confirm this. 3. TPM company (aftermarket). Black Powder coated. Pelican said to stay away from #3 as the black coating will eventually chip and once it starts, it keeps flaking off.

The OEM Porsche lugs are anywhere from $240-$285. Searching for OEM Porsche parts brings up the cheaper options while Pelican website is at the high end at $285.

Dimensionally:
1) These use a 19mm socket
2) These save 2.2 pounds over stock weighing in at 0.8 pounds for 20 nuts.
3) They are 32mm tall
4) They fit PERFECT on the spherical R14 gauge.

Notes of interest: Time will tell if the anodized coating holds up. They look pretty good straight out of the packaging. I was surprised they came in bags of 5 with nothing separating them. A few scuffs/scratches but thankfully nothing on the front face of the lug nut that would spoil the appearance.

Here's a few pics:
Part number: 999 182 003 36
Porsce Lug nut bag.jpg


5 per bag
5 lug nuts per bag.jpg


Perfect fit on the gauge:
Porsche OEM on gauge.png




World Motorsports:
https://www.world-motorsports.com/black-titanium-porsche-lug-nuts-closed.html
I was trying to justify buying these lug nuts before I found Danny’s Ti Lug nuts on the Pelican Forums. When I called with questions, I was transferred to the machinist who makes these. He was kind enough to measure one while I waited on the phone. They are 32mm high which is plenty high. They only sell in sets so I didn’t buy a set initially while I bought up all the other individual available nuts to study first. They post a lot of specs on-line including material specifications. They also advertise that you can use pneumatic tools on these and they will hold up, including the coating! I need to re-confirm but I believe these are now approved for Porsche Club of America track events (HPDE?). I’ve read so many forums over the last 6 months that some of the info is running together. Anyway, these seemed like the most durable, torture tested lug nuts I could find. I just hadn’t gotten the courage to pay $375 for lug nuts before I found a cheaper Ti Lug nut solution I liked.

Tikore:
http://www.tikore.com
I rarely have luck getting the website to work. Their FB page works though it does little to offer useful information except to tell you how awesome they are (maybe they are, who knows!). Graham Rahal was selling these with his logo laser etched into the top. It is nice that you can customize these. How about an R logo on top or your Type R #! They definitely hype up the fact that all threads are rolled and they seem to be a premium lugnut. I definitely could not find an easy way to get my hands on 1 to measure. At one point, the Civic offerings were 5 sided with a security socket. It looks like you can order standard hex, but the website hasn’t worked for me in a few tries so I can’t confirm at the moment. Other sites like Audizine confirm standard hex dimensions have historically been offered. Customization seems readily available. It should be expected at this price point though.

Hopefully all of this information was helpful. I’ll reserve the next post for future updates or more pictures.
Great post and info,I’ll use the Porsche OEM now ?
 

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Hi Guys - thanks for the positive feedback. I’ve sold a bunch of sets to some very happy people here, and just wanted to say thank you. If you’d like a set reach out and I’ll take care of you!
Just got a set of these Ti-Porsche lug nuts from Danny and they're really nice. It's a clean look for the NSX wheels without running the risk of chipping the finish around the lug holes (which has already happened to me, now I change them myself). Also definitely saves a few pounds over stock. Danny was great to work with and shipped same day I paid. Highly recommended!
 

5inn

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Just picked up a set of the Driven Performance Lugs. These are an aftermarket lug sold as an alternative to the OEM Porsche ones, with part number 999-182-003-36. They seem to match the same specs OP posted. Steel, 32mm tall and use a 19mm socket. A set of 20 is just $42 shipped from DP https://www.drivenproducts.com/prod...orsche-911-928-968-99918200336-999-182-003-36

Each seems to weigh 1.97oz or 56g. I have yet to try them on the car, but can't imagine there will be any problems.
 

TheGreekFreak

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I went with the raw Ti Porsche lugs as well. Seller was great to deal with and got them to me really fast. Haven't seen them on the wheels yet but I think they'll look really clean overall.
 


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Have you gotten these on yet? Definitely curious on a $40-50 option vs. $200+
 

5inn

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Have you gotten these on yet? Definitely curious on a $40-50 option vs. $200+
I assume this was supposed be @ Me. I haven’t. My first ax event with them will not be until about a month from now, but will update then. I guess I could put them on my stock wheels, which I may do after I make the swap at my ax event. They look halfway decent. One or two had a chip, but for the price I don’t really care!
 

Speed9117

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I assume this was supposed be @ Me. I haven’t. My first ax event with them will not be until about a month from now, but will update then. I guess I could put them on my stock wheels, which I may do after I make the swap at my ax event. They look halfway decent. One or two had a chip, but for the price I don’t really care!
Yeah, I meant to quote you. I went ahead and ordered a set today along with a 14mm radius gauge just to check, but it seems like these should work out well at a much lower price point. Don't want to spend $200+ for something I'm going to be hitting with an impact dozens of times a year switching wheels back and forth.
 


 


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