Launching turbo cvt. Underrated hp

themzlab

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That may be true, but CVTs artificially inflate the power curve, so to speak.

I think we need to get past the HP/TQ debate. This is really about gearing; an area where the CVT shines (to a certain point). Good read here:
https://danielmiessler.com/study/horsepower/
thanks for the link.

F = m*a is true in a vacuum.

This relationship is fundamental to engineering but for practical problems - not in deep outer space ; ) - more things should be considered.

F = (mass) * (acceleration) + (Velocity)*(Velocity) * (Some Constant)

This is simplified of course as all models are.

As the speed of the car goes up the drag force goes up dramatically (related to the square of speed).

maybe we don't want to go down this particular rabbit hole but this does explain why it is so much harder to kick down and pass someone on the freeway versus some other low-speed road.
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hondabuildquality

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this does explain why it is so much harder to kick down and pass someone on the freeway versus some other low-speed road.
You're right about aerodynamic drag. Kinetic energy increases with the square of velocity. So even in a vacuum with no frictional forces, to increase from 50 mph to 100 mph, you need not 2 times the energy, but 4 times. That's the most important reason at street legal speeds.

That may be true, but CVTs artificially inflate the power curve, so to speak.

I think we need to get past the HP/TQ debate. This is really about gearing; an area where the CVT shines (to a certain point). Good read here:
https://danielmiessler.com/study/horsepower/
CVTs can't "inflate" the power curve, they can take advantage of it.

The difference b/w horsepower and torque is not only one of gearing, though that's a very much related subject.

I went ahead for the bait and read the blog you posted. Not sure if it's yours and are looking for hits, but the important thing that is misunderstood by whoever wrote that blog is that torque is a measure of force. It's not a measure of work being done. Force is just that, it's a measure of force. We can put a 10,000,000,000 lb weight on a table, and it exerts a force of 10,000,000,000 lbs down on the table, but no work is being done. Horsepower is a measure of how much work can you do. We can move a 10,000,000,000 lb weight 100 meters in 1 minute, and calculate how much power is required to accomplish that. Not how much torque, how much power. That's the trick to understanding the Newtonian physics here.
 

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maybe we don't want to go down this particular rabbit hole but this does explain why it is so much harder to kick down and pass someone on the freeway versus some other low-speed road.
It's more likely because the CVT is tuned for efficiency vs. leveraging full power under the curve - even in Sport Mode. In theory, a properly tuned CVT will always outperform a traditional automatic or manual by exploiting maximum output in most given conditions. I and most enthusiasts aren't as interested in peak HP; we care more about the power under the curve.

Hence, it will be interesting to see what tuners can do with this car (if anything).

CVTs can't "inflate" the power curve, they can take advantage of it.
Semantics lol. Not my article or anyone I know. :dunno: It was listed for those not fluent in "engineering-speak."

EDIT: Just realized another member referenced the same article in this thread lol.
 
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hondabuildquality

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Semantics lol. Not my article or anyone I know. :dunno: It was listed for those not fluent in "engineering-speak."
Not just semantics :)

To be fair I just looked at the Wikipedia article on Torque, and there is even a section on the relationship between torque, power and energy, and it is perfectly reasonably explanatory and accurate as far as I'm aware. By contrast that article you linked to is by a guy that -- if I'm allowed to be blunt and completely honest -- that admitted to researching the article on Google before writing it, but very frankly, the information that is already available in the Wikipedia article (assuming the Wiki was available at the time he wrote it) is more accurate than what he wrote in that blog post.

The distinction to make and the pet peeve of mine is that saying, "which is more important for acceleration and top speed, torque, or HP" is like saying, "which is more important to how heavy my scale says I am, density or bodyweight?" It's the unit which describes how much work you can do in a given amount of time, just as kilograms is the unit which describes how much you weigh. There's no fuddling around or anything else to be debated. When people talk about torque what they mean, whether they know it or not, is area under the horsepower curve.
 

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I think I am going to see so many broken CVT transmissions in a year due to people remapping the turbo. Since Civic is such a popular car the reliability rating will sure suffer, you see that with Subarus very often.
 


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I think you're giving tuners waaay too much credit lol. DI brings a whole slew of issues independent of boost. I think the biggest issue will likely be fueling, depending on the capacity of the HPFP and injectors. Time will tell...
 
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tcaudo

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I think I am going to see so many broken CVT transmissions in a year due to people remapping the turbo. Since Civic is such a popular car the reliability rating will sure suffer, you see that with Subarus very often.
The turbo civic is quick stock. All i really want is to mod the exhaust. Just open it up a little so its not so damn quiet and ill be happy with a high 14 second-low 15 second car that gets 42mpg. If anyone wants to tune, add boost or really increase a lot of horsepower should go for the si or type r but I dont think this cvt trans is as weak as people are claiming. Honda's name is all about longevity and the powertrain lasting 300k miles. I feel like as long as the car is kept to stock or very close to stock hp/torque numbers that this car is going to be able to take an absolute beating and keep asking for more everyday just like every single honda civic that was ever made before it. Comparing subaru and honda is just wrong dude lol just plain wrong.
 

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Not just semantics :)

... just as kilograms is the unit which describes how much you weigh. There's no fuddling around or anything else to be debated.
Sorry, I hate to disagree but kilograms is the unit for mass and not for how much you weigh. The unit for weight is a Newton (force). I could get into the formula but I'm sure you already have all that info.
 

hondabuildquality

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Sorry, I hate to disagree but kilograms is the unit for mass and not for how much you weigh. The unit for weight is a Newton (force). I could get into the formula but I'm sure you already have all that info.
That's actually correct. I'm surprised you knew that.

Unfortunately, the usefulness of that fact to this discussion, beyond to be pedantic, is not apparent. I do think you can still understand the explanation.

...Especially being bound by Earth's gravity for all your life... Do you weigh yourself in Newtons? ;)
 

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Does anyone know if the CVT and torque converter are identical between the turbo and the NA engines?
 


jk147

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The turbo civic is quick stock. All i really want is to mod the exhaust. Just open it up a little so its not so damn quiet and ill be happy with a high 14 second-low 15 second car that gets 42mpg. If anyone wants to tune, add boost or really increase a lot of horsepower should go for the si or type r but I dont think this cvt trans is as weak as people are claiming. Honda's name is all about longevity and the powertrain lasting 300k miles. I feel like as long as the car is kept to stock or very close to stock hp/torque numbers that this car is going to be able to take an absolute beating and keep asking for more everyday just like every single honda civic that was ever made before it. Comparing subaru and honda is just wrong dude lol just plain wrong.
Back in early 2000 Accord, Civic, Odyssey and TLs were plagued with automatic transmission problems. In fact if you search "honda tranmission issues" you will see more results that you can read. With the tenth generation civic the engine is new, the transmission is new. It is a very new car. I am personally debating on getting Honda Care so I can prepare for some possible repairs.

Exhaust is not going to put that much of a difference (if at all) with power, not for turbo cars unless you are removing CATs. It will just make the car louder that is all.
 
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tcaudo

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Back in early 2000 Accord, Civic, Odyssey and TLs were plagued with automatic transmission problems. In fact if you search "honda tranmission issues" you will see more results that you can read. With the tenth generation civic the engine is new, the transmission is new. It is a very new car. I am personally debating on getting Honda Care so I can prepare for some possible repairs.

Exhaust is not going to put that much of a difference (if at all) with power, not for turbo cars unless you are removing CATs. It will just make the car louder that is all.
Funny my father has an automatic 2003 accord with 258k on it that juuust had its 3rd brake job. Car hasn't missed a beat. I owned a 2002 civic automatic and ran it to 220k and my little brother uses that car now as a daily driver to this day. You can read what u wanna read, im speaking from experience.
 

Design

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I am a firm believer in Honda reliability. But as I have said earlier and in different threads, there are a lot of "firsts" with the turbo platform. In its maiden year, I would never argue against additional coverage. :cool:
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