17CivicTypeR_Brian

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What would be wrong if a casual driver got their hands on one tho - ruin the reputation of the car because they never use utilize vtec? I don't worry about how they make the car for someone else, only that they make one that's good for me. Doesnt bother me if they offer it in auto/DCT and more people in general buy the car, as long as they make it in manual and give it a 2.0L Turbo. :thumbsup:
Good point. I suppose you're right- as long as they make 1 blue one that they sell to me I guess I shouldn't care about all the other ones.
That said, it drives me nuts to see someone in a high end car that just pokes the thing around.
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takemorepills

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VW can't get it right. (That said I haven't tried the newest generation of dsg...maybe they got it right. )
Wow, how wrong you are. Please prove where you found "VW can't get it right"?? I have a GTI DSG. News flash, "they got it right". The ONLY issue for the current DSG is the mapping of the shift points. In "D" it has a Dr. Jekyll-Mr. Hyde personality. Tries to short shift, and resists downshifts, I have to really step into the throttle to get it to downshift, at which point it goes bonkers and rockets away. This is very likely due to CAFE goals. To be fair, even when short shifting the GTI still hauls ass, even when the trans is proceeding to top gear I can pass people with no sweat, it helps that the 2.0T is greatly under rated. In "S" mode it shifts like you are trying to carve a canyon. Everyone who makes ECU tunes also offer TCU tunes, and the word is that the TCU tunes are spot-on. Anyways, this is a programming issue, the hardware is solid. The fastest 11 sec GTI's are using the DSG. Looking at Acura's 8DCT issues is sad, because VW really nailed this DSG spot on. I love it.


Someone shared a link about Acura's 8DCT, and it was pretty disheartening to see the issues the 8DCT is having. Sounds a lot like VW's 1st attempt at DSG. Now, on their 3rd attempt, it is a sweet transmission.

Hopefully Honda sorts out their 8DCT and it ends up in the Si.
 

takemorepills

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Good point. I suppose you're right- as long as they make 1 blue one that they sell to me I guess I shouldn't care about all the other ones.
That said, it drives me nuts to see someone in a high end car that just pokes the thing around.
It's great that people would purchase a "high-end" car and just poke around in it. It reduces your insurance rates by introducing more restrained, responsible drivers into the vehicle pool. It helps reduce costs when more are being sold. It helps to keep the name plate alive. Honda will probably always throw the enthusiasts' a "bone" like they do with 6MT Accord Sport and 6MT V6 coupe. I HIGHLY doubt they will do anything other than refine the Si to a point that is desirable to more people. They are not watering it down. Remember, the Si started life as a Civic EX variant, and really has never been all that "amazing".

In my opinion, the Preludes were and are better cars than Civic Si's. But see how the market determines what's gonna happen? The market allowed Honda to kill the Prelude. The market will also reward Honda for a Si automatic.
 

firsthonda

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All I know is I am trying real hard to be patient. If the EXT is the car I end up with, fine. Would love an auto Si and if some people don't like the Si badge to be associated with an automatic, then I am ok with a Sport badge on the back. My thinking though on two niche cars just does not add up financially for Honda. Type R's being priced into the mid 30,s range are definitely going to be the demand of the current Si. So some say the DCT is not perfect right now and I am not an expert but plenty of different transmissions Honda could choose. Oh well all this is speculation and I know I am of just a small few on here hoping for an auto sporty version. Still have not driven the 1.5 t engine yet so I am sure it is adequate just liking the idea of a car from factory that I don't have to dump money into new rims and tires and add a spoiler etc. So if the price of my EXT plus goodies is say 23k plus 1 or 2k for rims tires spoilers equals 25k, that I can get for 27 ish a car already to my liking would be awesome.
 

takemorepills

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For me, the 1.5T wouldn't be enough. It took me 2-3 days to get desensitized to a 250/280 car that does 0-60 in 5.6 seconds. Now everything else feels slow.

Excited to see what the Si brings
 


17CivicTypeR_Brian

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Wow, how wrong you are. Please prove where you found "VW can't get it right"?? I have a GTI DSG. News flash, "they got it right". The ONLY issue for the current DSG is the mapping of the shift points.


Someone shared a link about Acura's 8DCT, and it was pretty disheartening to see the issues the 8DCT is having. Sounds a lot like VW's 1st attempt at DSG. Now, on their 3rd attempt, it is a sweet transmission.

Hopefully Honda sorts out their 8DCT and it ends up in the Si.
I knew I shouldn't have said anything since I have no experience with the latest generation of DSG - I only knew of the older generation... and I'm not commenting on how it drives, just how it lasts. I will gladly admit that I love certain aspects of how VAG cars drive but can't live with their maintenance and repair and that is what I was really trying to get at.
 

17CivicTypeR_Brian

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It's great that people would purchase a "high-end" car and just poke around in it. It reduces your insurance rates by introducing more restrained, responsible drivers into the vehicle pool. It helps reduce costs when more are being sold. It helps to keep the name plate alive. Honda will probably always throw the enthusiasts' a "bone" like they do with 6MT Accord Sport and 6MT V6 coupe. I HIGHLY doubt they will do anything other than refine the Si to a point that is desirable to more people. They are not watering it down. Remember, the Si started life as a Civic EX variant, and really has never been all that "amazing".

In my opinion, the Preludes were and are better cars than Civic Si's. But see how the market determines what's gonna happen? The market allowed Honda to kill the Prelude. The market will also reward Honda for a Si automatic.
Good points. I don't really consider the insurance costs. My 09 Si has been under $50 a month since I picked it up(500 collision 100 comp, full tort, 100k300k etc), I'm 35 now and somehow managed to get all the points off my license and stay violation-free for a while now so it isn't something I even think about anymore. I can remember the insurance on my 99Si being almost as the payment was back when I was 20. Hah that sucked.
One thing I wanted to 'argue' - the Si started out as just an S. It became an Si when it got multi-point fuel injection instead of just having the single (or dual) fuel injectors just after the throttle body back in like 87 on the CRX and Hatchback Civics. In the 88-91 variety, we still saw the Si with MPFI vs the non-si DPFI and an advantage of like 10+ hp as I recall. I seem to remember 88-91 Si's having 106 hp vs 92 for non-Si versions.
I don't know the Prelude Si line nearly as well. I had 3 preludes, one was Si. All 3 were well in excess of 200k miles and in pretty rough condition so there was really not much sport left in them sadly.
I remember somewhere in the 90's, Preludes got a bit goofy with their naming - like there was Si, then DOHC VTEC Si, then of course the Type SH and so on... I never kept up with them because the Civic was the cheaper of the two and, at that time, the more available-to-me variety as some of my friends were rocking 89hatches and whatnot. Anyway, I don't know that the Prelude ever had anything less than MPFI. My 83 had a 3bbl carb, but I think my 85 and 87 both had 4 injectors. I never had one with 4ws sadly.
 

takemorepills

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Good points. I don't really consider the insurance costs. My 09 Si has been under $50 a month since I picked it up(500 collision 100 comp, full tort, 100k300k etc), I'm 35 now and somehow managed to get all the points off my license and stay violation-free for a while now so it isn't something I even think about anymore. I can remember the insurance on my 99Si being almost as the payment was back when I was 20. Hah that sucked.
One thing I wanted to 'argue' - the Si started out as just an S. It became an Si when it got multi-point fuel injection instead of just having the single (or dual) fuel injectors just after the throttle body back in like 87 on the CRX and Hatchback Civics. In the 88-91 variety, we still saw the Si with MPFI vs the non-si DPFI and an advantage of like 10+ hp as I recall. I seem to remember 88-91 Si's having 106 hp vs 92 for non-Si versions.
I don't know the Prelude Si line nearly as well. I had 3 preludes, one was Si. All 3 were well in excess of 200k miles and in pretty rough condition so there was really not much sport left in them sadly.
I remember somewhere in the 90's, Preludes got a bit goofy with their naming - like there was Si, then DOHC VTEC Si, then of course the Type SH and so on... I never kept up with them because the Civic was the cheaper of the two and, at that time, the more available-to-me variety as some of my friends were rocking 89hatches and whatnot. Anyway, I don't know that the Prelude ever had anything less than MPFI. My 83 had a 3bbl carb, but I think my 85 and 87 both had 4 injectors. I never had one with 4ws sadly.
Yeah man, back in 94 my car insurance was the same as my current no-down payment GTI lease! Now my insurance for a turbo sporty car is dirt cheap. But honestly, I was probably a safer driver 20 years ago, I haven't changed much but my reflexes and senses have dulled a bit.

Regarding Civics, the S was carb. Yup. In 85 when the Si came out, the PGM-FI MPFI replaced the S's carb motor. And it was only available on the CRX and Si hatch. Civic didn't have TBI during this time. The 88+ Civics were ALL EFI. Base EFI was TBI "Dual Point PGM-FI". EX sedan, CRX, Si hatch, and RT Wagon all had the same PFI PGM-FI setup.

The next gen, 92+ were all PFI, and the EX coupe, sedan, del sol, Si hatch shared the same engine.

Preludes beginning with Gen 2 (which I own a 87 Si) were either carb 1.8 or EFI 2.0, and peculiarly the Prelude kept carbs until 1989...or 90, I forget because I actively ignored those versions.

It is so bizarre though, I guess it is an economic thing, why the Civic became more popular. The Prelude is absolutely a better car out of the factory than a Civic. My Prelude Si only weighs 2436 pounds, so a B20Z or B18 swap with turbo yields incredible results also, with a better overall package. Oh well, that's just how things worked out. Preludes were probably too expensive to fart around with. I don't think I have ever owned a Civic....
 

17CivicTypeR_Brian

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I once heard they dropped the Prelude because it bit too many sales from Civic/Accord and also from Integra/CL. At that time, Honda decided that they offered too many choices and it was forcing people to go to Jetta or Corolla because americans didn't have to decide as much or something... The way it was explained made as much sense as "I can't make my mind up on which Honda to get, so I'll go buy a Ford." It was always my opinion the more products you offer, the better chance of making a sale for Honda. I guess they were thinking the opposite was true at the time. True, Prelude stole some sales from Civic which probably kept them from being #1 in the market, but Honda was probably just as happy for making the sales.

I agree the Prelude was far better than the Integra or Civic as a coupe. I mean if you needed a sedan you were just SOL if you only wanted a Prelude. Looking at it from the aftermarket side, the Prelude didn't have quite the volume of the Civic to bring the prices down on parts but they aren't that far off. Swaps made a lot of sense. Stock engines didn't take boost as well as stock B-series but whatever. It's not always about 10+psi!

I'm still trying to get my hands on some of the old Preludes, Civic's, etc. Most of them that I see are completely ruined and not worth what little time I have but hopefully some day I can score one to hold on to.
 

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I think the real reason Honda dropped the Prelude was that the Prelude, beginning 2G, and especially 3G and 4G were all about innovation and refinement of the sporty Honda FWD design model. By the 5G, there wasn't much left to do to the FWD class to keep the Prelude true to it's roots. The 5G had SH and recycled the design cues from 2G (dash, front end) and 3 G (front end, rear) and deleted the cool stuff of the outgoing 4G, plus it became way too heavy. Basically, Honda perfected the FWD formula and there wasn't any new stuff to dump into a 6G, and sporty coupes aren't all that profitable anyway.
 


17CivicTypeR_Brian

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Side note- I hope the prelude returns sometime.
 

jk147

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Side note- I hope the prelude returns sometime.
As much as I wish that is true I don't think that is happening. Prelude in 2017 will be stuck somewhere between a Civic Si and an Accord Coupe V6, really a rock and a hard place. Ideally the Accord R should return, but that is also just a wish from a far, far place. I think a return of S2000 is probably a lot more likely.
 

yakapo

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When I was younger, I bought and also preferred an Si in 2 door coupe manual form. Now that I'm an older family man, I want a 4 door sedan automatic Si. Make it happen Honda!
first post...

This older family man still wants a 6MT Civic Si sedan. I'm currently driving an '09 Acura TSX 6MT. I think it has the same motor as the older Si.
 

17CivicTypeR_Brian

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+1.

Never knew they made a 6MT on the TSX. Welcome!!
Heck yeah!
Driving my friends TSX 6MT with Tein Type Flex is what made me want to buy my 09 Si sedan and get out of my 95 Turbo Civic coupe (which lacked A/C!)
Welcome to the site fellow family man!!
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