Infotainment software update?

[dby2017]

As each new model year has come out there have been updates with undisclosed changes.
Other than that, nothing.

It’s unlikely there will be anything further baring patching a large security exploit, which are the main changes Honda has made.

As I stated in previous threads, I updated my 2017 EX-T sedan with the 197 firmware update and everything works except any audio program in Android Auto. The infotainment won't let you flash back to a lower numbered firmware so I am stuck now with Android Auto being broken. I was hoping a higher number firmware would be released specifically for my radio so I can correct it. Technically the 197 update wasn't meant for my radio but I flashed it anyway as have others. Everything else if fine it just screws up Android Auto. I don't know how to approach this with the dealer since I did something I shouldn't of.

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[SCOPESYS]

As each new model year has come out there have been updates with undisclosed changes.
Other than that, nothing.

It’s unlikely there will be anything further baring patching a large security exploit, which are the main changes Honda has made.

Did check the Parts numbers of the 2018 / 2019 Honda higher end Infotainment Units.

Example: for the SI

The 2018 Display is obviously different , different part numbers.. one has different volume control etc.
But the 2019 Basic Radio Head Unit also has an updated Part Number, so IS different to the 2018 unit .... thus reducing the likelihood of being able to swap out just the Display section of a 2018 to get a mechanical volume control.
(IMHO why even try -- use steering wheel volume !!)

Suspect there is a slight change in the Unit's software, to cater for the different display.

Of course, it would be nice if there was a Software update for the 2018 units, so they could work with the 2019 Display .. but don't hold your breath.

Time will tell .. but since there have been no updates at all for the 2018 SI head unit since the 2018's came out, it looks like updates are just not on the cards for the Si models.

 

[lightthief]

As I stated in previous threads, I updated my 2017 EX-T sedan with the 197 firmware update and everything works except any audio program in Android Auto. The infotainment won't let you flash back to a lower numbered firmware so I am stuck now with Android Auto being broken. I was hoping a higher number firmware would be released specifically for my radio so I can correct it. Technically the 197 update wasn't meant for my radio but I flashed it anyway as have others. Everything else if fine it just screws up Android Auto. I don't know how to approach this with the dealer since I did something I shouldn't of.

Gotcha.
I caught a post somewhere, not in this thread, of someone able to walk back their update. Possibly after the Hondahack, so that it would accept a wildcard firmware version instead of a specific version.

Unfortunately I don’t recall which thread, but hunt around.
You may want to check the XDA thread or ask there.

 

[SCOPESYS]

As I stated in previous threads, I updated my 2017 EX-T sedan with the 197 firmware update and everything works except any audio program in Android Auto. The infotainment won't let you flash back to a lower numbered firmware so I am stuck now with Android Auto being broken. I was hoping a higher number firmware would be released specifically for my radio so I can correct it. Technically the 197 update wasn't meant for my radio but I flashed it anyway as have others. Everything else if fine it just screws up Android Auto. I don't know how to approach this with the dealer since I did something I shouldn't of.

When did we all become so scared and submissive to "The Dealer" !!

It's OUR car, and if we want something serviced on it, we should be able to get that work done (maybe paying for it in some cases), but we should not be in fear that the Dealer will refuse to FIX it, or discipline us, just because we broke it. !!

It seems that your Radio allows for user updates .. in reality, it should not allow you to update with an incorrect version. That's a Honda short coming.

In any case a decent, competent Dealer should be able to RESET your Unit and re-install the original, correct software. If yours cannot, or give you a hard time (probably because they do not know how to do it), maybe it's time to find a new Honda Dealer to support your car.

 

[lightthief]

When did we all become so scared and submissive to "The Dealer" !!

It's OUR car, and if we want something serviced on it, we should be able to get that work done (maybe paying for it in some cases), but we should not be in fear that the Dealer will refuse to FIX it, or discipline us, just because we broke it. !!

When did we all become so scared and submissive to "The Dealer" !!

It's OUR car, and if we want something serviced on it, we should be able to get that work done (maybe paying for it in some cases), but we should not be in fear that the Dealer will refuse to FIX it, or discipline us, just because we broke it. !!

It seems that your Radio allows for user updates .. in reality, it should not allow you to update with an incorrect version. That's a Honda short coming.

In any case a decent, competent Dealer should be able to RESET your Unit and re-install the original, correct software. If yours cannot, or give you a hard time (probably because they do not know how to do it), maybe it's time to find a new Honda Dealer to support your car.

It seems that your Radio allows for user updates .. in reality, it should not allow you to update with an incorrect version. That's a Honda short coming.

In any case a decent, competent Dealer should be able to RESET your Unit and re-install the original, correct software. If yours cannot, or give you a hard time (probably because they do not know how to do it), maybe it's time to find a new Honda Dealer to support your car.

Unfortunately that isn’t accurate information.
Firmware updates for the Civic are not meant to be user installable. Every discussion around people doing so themselves on this form is explicitly about them having obtained the updates through routes not supported by Honda.

By extension that means that it could be reasonably used as grounds to invalidate warrenty work on the car.

Moreover there is no “reset”.
The updates are designed to be one way only. The dealer wouldn’t be able to rollback a faulty update even if it wanted.
They use a simple check to see if the firmware version is a higher number then the installed version and if it’s a lower number it doesn’t allow it to be installed. It has nothing to do with a willingness to perform the work or an owners willingness to pay money.

An owner would need a dealer willing to make up the paperwork to charge the cost back to Honda to order a replacement system.

 

[SCOPESYS]

Unfortunately that isn’t accurate information.
Firmware updates for the Civic are not meant to be user installable. Every discussion around people doing so themselves on this form is explicitly about them having obtained the updates through routes not supported by Honda.

By extension that means that it could be reasonably used as grounds to invalidate warrenty work on the car.

Moreover there is no “reset”.
The updates are designed to be one way only. The dealer wouldn’t be able to rollback a faulty update even if it wanted.
They use a simple check to see if the firmware version is a higher number then the installed version and if it’s a lower number it doesn’t allow it to be installed. It has nothing to do with a willingness to perform the work or an owners willingness to pay money.

An owner would need a dealer willing to make up the paperwork to charge the cost back to Honda to order a replacement system.

Maybe I am mistaken, but I thought that some model Honda allowed the user to update online, direct from their HU themselves. (Not the case for the SI, which is the only car I have personal knowledge of).

Also, I was not talking specifically WARRANTY. Some mistakes you make you have to pay for

Lastly, if the software update can check if it is going to allow an update based on Version Number, it should equally well, or more importantly, decide if it will update based on correct model type for compatibility. Failure to do this is poor design.

There is also a difference between Update, and Re-install. At some time in the manufacture of the unit, the software had to be installed onto a new clean/empty unit.

What the OP is looking for is a Re-Install of the original software.

 

[zroger73]

Maybe I am mistaken, but I thought that some model Honda allowed the user to update online, direct from their HU themselves.

2018-2019 Odyssey, 2018-2019 Accord, 2019 Insight, 2019 Pilot, 2019 RDX, and 2019 Passport support customer-installed audio system updates via USB, Wi-Fi, and/or 4G LTE.

 

[SCOPESYS]

2018-2019 Odyssey, 2018-2019 Accord, 2019 Insight, 2019 Pilot, 2019 RDX, and 2019 Passport support customer-installed audio system updates via USB, Wi-Fi, and/or 4G LTE.

Thank you -- thought I may have dreamed that

 

[dby2017]

Maybe I am mistaken, but I thought that some model Honda allowed the user to update online, direct from their HU themselves. (Not the case for the SI, which is the only car I have personal knowledge of).

Also, I was not talking specifically WARRANTY. Some mistakes you make you have to pay for

Lastly, if the software update can check if it is going to allow an update based on Version Number, it should equally well, or more importantly, decide if it will update based on correct model type for compatibility. Failure to do this is poor design.

There is also a difference between Update, and Re-install. At some time in the manufacture of the unit, the software had to be installed onto a new clean/empty unit.

What the OP is looking for is a Re-Install of the original software.

Just to clarify, I purchased both flash drives through a Honda dealer. I understand the consequences and take full responsibility but in my case I obtained the updates honestly and paid for them. I bought the 197 update and when I had problems I ordered the original software I initially had on my unit. I then figured out it would not let me go back to a lower version. I agree that not having some type of compatibility check is a failure of Honda.

On a side note, would it be easy for me to just get a salvaged radio from another 2017 Civic like mine and just swap them? I'm to the point Id do that to gain my Android Auto back.

 

[SCOPESYS]

Just to clarify, I purchased both flash drives through a Honda dealer. I understand the consequences and take full responsibility but in my case I obtained the updates honestly and paid for them. I bought the 197 update and when I had problems I ordered the original software I initially had on my unit. I then figured out it would not let me go back to a lower version. I agree that not having some type of communicability check is a failure of Honda.

On a side note, would it be easy for me to just get a salvaged radio from another 2017 Civic like mine and just swap them? I'm to the point Id do that to gain my Android Auto back.

Well, then it sounds like the Dealer was partially at fault for selling you the wrong Software update for your car.

Yes, you might be able to get and use a salvaged unit, but you may be digging yourself into an ever deepening warranty hole ?

The actual cost of a used unit is not so bad, so if you feel confident to install it yourself, then that might be your best option.
If you go Official Dealer route, you can get them to get a supply & install a new or reconditioned unit, but you will pay through the nose, and since its not an ORIGINAL part, it will not be covered by your normal new car warranty, and will probably only have a limited 1 year warranty on it.

Personally, I find the whole Honda Warranty System, & Infotainment System's lack of information and options, sickening !
Not so bad if you have unlimited funds to throw at it --at least here in America you can then have almost anything you want, if you are prepared to pay for it, but that option is unrealistically out of reach for most.

Hopefully, as time goes by, better solutions will be found by the Honda Community to address these situations.

 

[lightthief]

I joined this form in 2015 to see how Honda was going to handle the buggy broken infotainment system.
The short answer is that it hasn't.
It ditched the platform it developed and rolled out a new one in the 2019 Accord et all that doesn't share any code with the platform in the Civic.
Since Dec 2015 at best there have been 2 or 3 updates that addressed some glaring bugs and patched some security holes aimed at closing security holes that allowed people access to the platform.

People keep asking when will there been an update.
There is no when. Rather than fix this Honda dumped it and moved on and aren't devoting resources to it any further. Externally responded to the criticism of the lack of hardware buttons, which also gave them something to change for a mid-generation refresh in a market where there is increasingly little to add without significantly raising cost.

What we bought is what we have short of heavy investment by a 3rd party, which 3 years in, seems increasingly unlikely.

This is out of the hands of the dealer. Dealers don't have software developers on hand. They only have the what Honda provides them, and all that Honda has provided them for this platform are thumb drives with updates, not the power to reinstall, and not the power to roll back changes.

The long development and release cycles of cars are inherently out of sync with the annual update nature of phones the consumer public has grown used to.
But even by those standard Honda has been slow on the uptake. But they have at least now worked out a platform that allows them to push out updates in a more reasonable manner, but these cars are not a part of it.

 

[zroger73]

Name any automaker that regularly add features to and fixes bugs in their infotainment systems?

Bueller? Bueller? Bueller? Bueller?

Remember the original Ford SYNC back in 2007? That was scrapped in favor of MyFordTouch in 2010. That was scrapped in favor of Ford Sync 3 in 2014. Read the Ford boards - they're littered with complaints about infotainment systems. I have a 2016 Ford Fiesta that came with Sync 3 version 1.0. Ford released a 2.0 update then a 3.0 update which added Apple CarPlay support. The vehicle supports Wi-Fi updates, but it said no updates could be found. I updated via USB successfully, but CarPlay didn't work - just a blank screen - and no support since the vehicle is out of warranty. I also get a pop-up every time I start the vehicle that tells me the system can check for updates via Wi-Fi, which has to be manually dismissed - even when I turn off Wi-Fi and automatic updates. Very annoying. Also, the system like to default to FM or AM as the source instead of satellite radio or Bluetooth. After some research, these appear to be common problems with no solution from Ford.

The infotainment system in my brother's 2016 Tacoma liked to lock up and make random calls via Bluetooth and had long delays before satellite radio would play after starting. There were more software updates for the transmission than for the infotainment system.

 

[lightthief]

Name any automaker that regularly add features to and fixes bugs in their infotainment systems?

Bueller? Bueller? Bueller? Bueller?

Remember the original Ford SYNC back in 2007? That was scrapped in favor of MyFordTouch in 2010. That was scrapped in favor of Ford Sync 3 in 2014. Read the Ford boards - they're littered with complaints about infotainment systems. I have a 2016 Ford Fiesta that came with Sync 3 version 1.0. Ford released a 2.0 update then a 3.0 update which added Apple CarPlay support. The vehicle supports Wi-Fi updates, but it said no updates could be found. I updated via USB successfully, but CarPlay didn't work - just a blank screen - and no support since the vehicle is out of warranty. I also get a pop-up every time I start the vehicle that tells me the system can check for updates via Wi-Fi, which has to be manually dismissed - even when I turn off Wi-Fi and automatic updates. Very annoying. Also, the system like to default to FM or AM as the source instead of satellite radio or Bluetooth. After some research, these appear to be common problems with no solution from Ford.

The infotainment system in my brother's 2016 Tacoma liked to lock up and make random calls via Bluetooth and had long delays before satellite radio would play after starting. There were more software updates for the transmission than for the infotainment system.

VW does apparently.
https://9to5mac.com/2018/11/12/volkswagen-vehicles-get-siri-shortcuts/
Though there is a marked difference between adding features and having them work in a polished manner and apparently VW .

But really, no need to stake out some defensive stance on Honda's behalf or because you enjoy the car personally. Outside of this infotainment system this is the best car I've ever owned, but if anything that makes how many issues I've had with this part of my car stick out more rather than less.

Honda falls to the back of the pack of on this particular issue comparatively, but overall across the board you'd have to be grading on a pretty steep curve to say any manufacturer is doing well. They are all learning very very slowly how to grapple with this new requirement to car making and it will probably be another generation of cars before we see things in line with growing consumer expectation.

Fords Sync is notoriously well known for how awful it was despite an apparent direct partnership with a major software development.

My Elantra's system did far less and was based on ye olde Windows CE. But one thing it never did was fail to turn on, or randomly reset itself. I wish I could say the same for this thing, but I can't.

 

[lightthief]

Name any automaker that regularly add features to and fixes bugs in their infotainment systems?

Bueller? Bueller? Bueller? Bueller?

Remember the original Ford SYNC back in 2007? That was scrapped in favor of MyFordTouch in 2010. That was scrapped in favor of Ford Sync 3 in 2014. Read the Ford boards - they're littered with complaints about infotainment systems. I have a 2016 Ford Fiesta that came with Sync 3 version 1.0. Ford released a 2.0 update then a 3.0 update which added Apple CarPlay support. The vehicle supports Wi-Fi updates, but it said no updates could be found. I updated via USB successfully, but CarPlay didn't work - just a blank screen - and no support since the vehicle is out of warranty. I also get a pop-up every time I start the vehicle that tells me the system can check for updates via Wi-Fi, which has to be manually dismissed - even when I turn off Wi-Fi and automatic updates. Very annoying. Also, the system like to default to FM or AM as the source instead of satellite radio or Bluetooth. After some research, these appear to be common problems with no solution from Ford.

The infotainment system in my brother's 2016 Tacoma liked to lock up and make random calls via Bluetooth and had long delays before satellite radio would play after starting. There were more software updates for the transmission than for the infotainment system.

Also I'm sure you didn't mean to do so but be careful of moral equivalence fallacies.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Moral_equivalence

Pointing out that other companies are also not good at infotainment systems doesn't really have any baring on the discussion at hand, which is centered around what Honda is and isn't doing about updates for the 10th generation Civic.
All can be true simultaneously.

 

[zroger73]

But really, no need to stake out some defensive stance on Honda's behalf or because you enjoy the car personally. Outside of this infotainment system this is the best car I've ever owned, but if anything that makes how many issues I've had with this part of my car stick out more rather than less.

No defense here - I've got a laundry list of issues with my 2019 RDX's infotainment system. I'm just saying that I drive and have owned a lot of different vehicles and frequently see problems with most infotainment systems that slowly or never get addressed. Sadly, one of the better ones seems to be Chrysler's Uconnect systems in brands I'd never park in my garage for more than a week.

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