I NEED YOUR HELP: How can I get American Honda's attention?

[n9yty]

Here is the deal... I am *STILL* going back and forth between American Honda and my dealership over this STUPID AM radio interference issue.

The last thing i was told by the dealership head of Honda service is that the regional Honda service rep told him that 'ALL OF THESE CARS HAVE THIS PROBLEM'.

That sounds like a class action item right there.... But how to get anyone to care, becuase it is not a "SAFETY ISSUE"?

Here is the thread with all the details:

https://www.civicx.com/threads/am-r...te-controls-running-auto-or-ac-on-only.22140/

I created a set of four videos I put on YouTube, at first unlisted, but nobody from either the dealership OR Honda seem to care enough to even look at them and determine what is going on. Of course, if they know it is a DEFECT they will turn a blind eye...

I'll put them here. So, I will lose the ability to know if Honda looks at them, but at this point, it seems obvious nobody there cares, so why would they? My only answer at this point seems to turn it into as big of a headache for them as possible.

PART 1 - The interference problem demonstrated


PART 2 - Showing where the interference is coming from


PART 3 - Further narrowing down on interference source


PART 4 - Showing how interference goes away on deceleration around 20mph


Please, confirm if you have this issue with your car. It takes only a few seconds with a portable AM radio to detect the awful noise being generated by some computer component in the car.

If Honda would get this to an engineer, it would take probably minutes to solve, because of the very specific circumstances that should point out exactly what computer module is generating the noise: If the AC is ON in climate controls, the noise is there, but if you decelerate from above, say, 30mph, the noise will GO AWAY when you hit about 20mph and come back around 15mph as it continues to decelerate.

Seems like a dead-easy diagnosis of what computer module would be involved if they cared, but they don't.

So, how can I (we?) get Honda's attention?

Thanks,
Steve

Sponsored

 

[typeaarrr]

If your state has a lemon law, talk to your dealership. This will usually get Honda's attention.

If your car still has bumper to bumper warranty, ask your dealership to replace the head-unit with another head-unit.

 

[n9yty]

If your state has a lemon law, talk to your dealership. This will usually get Honda's attention.

If your car still has bumper to bumper warranty, ask your dealership to replace the head-unit with another head-unit.

Thanks, but it seems you didn't read any of the thread/info. It is not the head unit. It is the car generating the RF Interference. It affects even a pocket AM radio in the car not connected to any car system. It is a defective/ungrounded/etc computer module generating RF noise.

 

[NoKz]

Now this may just be me, so please don't take any offense to this. But of all things to bug a person about a car, I never thought I would see someone take a stand regarding the quality of 120 year old AM frequencies in 2019. I wish you the best of luck in finding a solution.

 

[n9yty]

Well, if you had a buzz everytime you listened to bluetooth connected sources, you would probably feel as irritated. Or if your CarPlay or Android Auto audio had a buzz in it. The most annoying thing is that it is an apparrently known defect, and they refuse to move on it. Yes, I listen to AM radio, a lot, so it is a big deal. The fact that it is an old technology shouldn't matter at all. And I'm not even complaining about AM Radio Reception --- the issue is that the car is generating egregious RF Interference. I am a Ham Radio Operator, and I have had an HF Radio in all my previous cars, but I haven't even started on this one becuase with this kind of generated interference it would destroy the radio spectrum making the radio useless. The bottom line, the car shouldn't be doing it.

 

[typeaarrr]

Thanks, but it seems you didn't read any of the thread/info. It is not the head unit. It is the car generating the RF Interference. It affects even a pocket AM radio in the car not connected to any car system. It is a defective/ungrounded/etc computer module generating RF noise.

Yes. I did read your thread. Asking Honda to replace your headunit, will make the technician check for potential grounding issues. The buzzing is a very common issue with audio equipment that has very poor wire insulation (EX-Audio Engineer).

 

[n9yty]

But the interference is detected using an external radio, so it is not harness related to the headunit, and it is stronger actually AWAY from the headunit in the dash area over the speedometer/etc... I don't see how asking them to replace the headunit is going to accomplish anything. If a portable radio picks it up, then it isn't just the headunit that is the problem.

 

[bhorn]

Maybe after the shutdown you can file an FCC report?

 

[SCOPESYS]

But the interference is detected using an external radio, so it is not harness related to the headunit, and it is stronger actually AWAY from the headunit in the dash area over the speedometer/etc... I don't see how asking them to replace the headunit is going to accomplish anything. If a portable radio picks it up, then it isn't just the headunit that is the problem.

100% Correct .. and the less the Dealer messes with the car, and the Infotainment system, the better, and the more likely it is to continue to work correctly.

The interference seems to be coming from the wiring just under the top of the dashboard, which just happens to be where the wiring runs to the A/C Blower.

That wiring also runs close to the Antenna Socket and the head unit that contains the AM tuner if it is not a Si R, or a car that has the AM tuner located remotely, at the end of a serial link line to the HU, Those cars with the remote AM tuner, do NOT suffer from this AM noise, when the A/C blower is running.

It has nothing to do with any RF radiation from the Head Unit Processor.

PROOF:

Place your Portable AM radio in the passenger footwell, at the top, far back .. and the Interference on the Portable AM radio will be maximum. This is where the A/C Blower is -- the source of the Interference ...

Now what remains is to find the simplest way to stop that interference from getting to the AM radio, probably though a less than optimum screened AM antenna coax lead, or maybe direct into the HU and the AM tuner itself.

Fan DC motors have been a potential cause of AM noise in cars for DECADES. Nothing that cannot be reduced to an acceptably low level, even when listening to weak AM stations.

The best approach is to reduce the emission of the Interference, rather than trying to screen the AM Radio from it's effects.

I do not listen to AM Broadcast radio - If I did want to listen to an AM station, I would do so over the Internet, but I am that OCD that I will fix the Interference source in my Si, even though it does not effect the SI AM Radio, because the Radiation should not be happening.


Unfortunately, the Interference is only radiating very locally within the car, so I suspect the FCC would not be able to get involved to any extent. (It is not affecting anyone outside of the car)

If the solution could be a small, in-line Filter, that connects via the existing plug into the Blower, then that will be a very quick & simple solution that just about anyone could fit (Without any WARRANTY issues) !!

 

[n9yty]

It has nothing to do with any RF radiation from the Head Unit Processor.

PROOF:

Place your Portable AM radio in the passenger footwell, at the top, far back .. and the Interference on the Portable AM radio will be maximum. This is where the A/C Blower is -- the source of the Interference ...

Well, you found ANOTHER source of interference. I can locate that one as well, but it is far weaker than the noise I am battling. If I put a radio down in the footwell I hear what you are hearing, and yes, it varies with the fan speed, but it is SEPARATE from the noise that is far more pervasive and is causing my problems.

 

[SCOPESYS]

Well, you found ANOTHER source of interference. I can locate that one as well, but it is far weaker than the noise I am battling. If I put a radio down in the footwell I hear what you are hearing, and yes, it varies with the fan speed, but it is SEPARATE from the noise that is far more pervasive and is causing my problems.

Oh dear .. I have just ADDED to the problem !!! Tomorrow, Thursday, it is forecast to be a little warmer than the sub-zero temperatures we have had recently on the East Coast USA.

In my case, the interference from the Passenger foot-well is very much stronger than from the top of the dash... but the top of the dash is also defiantly a hot spot as well... just not so hot.

Maybe I can get to find the A/C Blower, and disconnect it for a short time, and see if the Interference goes away.

What is strange is that the Noise seems to have a definite Audio Frequency, but that does not vary with Blower speed, only it's volume does.

This might imply that the power to the Blower is actually a fixed frequency Pulse Width Modulation control, which with it's sharp edge waveform, would potentially cause massive AM interference.

Time to go look at the parts Diagram, to see what might be that controller.
Anyone already now ???

Great, I get to play with the Oscilloscope in the car !! I bet Honda Dealer Techs don't get to have that much fun

 

[n9yty]

Time to go look at the parts Diagram, to see what might be that controller.
Anyone already now ???

Great, I get to play with the Oscilloscope in the car !! I bet Honda Dealer Techs don't get to have that much fun

I can't find any diagrams, that would be helpful. Given the expression on their faces most of the times I'm in the dealership service area, I don't think the techs have much fun at all. LOL Ok, just kidding, they aren't that bad.

And the sound quality is definitely different between the two noises... The one by the blower motor seems less "dense" where the other one is a much more dense hash sound... Comparing it, for example (dating myself) to the difference between 300, 1200, 2400, 9600, 56K modem baud rate signals... LoL Or the sound comparison on a computer datasette between, say, a Commodore 64 normal data tape and one that used a compressed loader routine.

 

[SCOPESYS]

I can't find any diagrams, that would be helpful. Given the expression on their faces most of the times I'm in the dealership service area, I don't think the techs have much fun at all. LOL Ok, just kidding, they aren't that bad.

And the sound quality is definitely different between the two noises... The one by the blower motor seems less "dense" where the other one is a much more dense hash sound... Comparing it, for example (dating myself) to the difference between 300, 1200, 2400, 9600, 56K modem baud rate signals... LoL Or the sound comparison on a computer datasette between, say, a Commodore 64 normal data tape and one that used a compressed loader routine.

Commodore 64 !!! bet 99% of those on here have never seen one of those in real life !!!

 

[SCOPESYS]

Found a few Treasures (Thanks to HondaTech49 )

The Blower motor is PWM controlled from the Climate Control Unit.
The CCU sends the control signal to the Blower Power Transistor (Mounted on the Blower), that effectively controls the speed of the Blower.

Showing location of the Blower Motor Transistor on the Blower. (Part # 3)


Blower motor has a 40A fuse.

So there is potentially a large Current passing through the Blower Motor wiring, that is switching at the PCM frequency, and is radiating RF interference that is upsetting the AM radio, which is located near to the Blower Fan.

 

[SCOPESYS]

Found a few Treasures (Thanks to HondaTech49 )

The Blower motor is PWM controlled from the Climate Control Unit.
The CCU sends the control signal to the Blower Power Transistor (Mounted on the Blower), that effectively controls the speed of the Blower.

Showing location of the Blower Motor Transistor on the Blower. (Part # 3)


Blower motor has a 40A fuse.

So there is potentially a large Current passing through the Blower Motor wiring, that is switching at the PCM frequency, and is radiating RF interference that is upsetting the AM radio, which is located near to the Blower Fan.

See
ref:
Noise suppression in PWM-driven DC motor
United States Patent 5838877
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5838877.pdf

Sponsored