honest question about the $$

  1. consensual_induction

    consensual_induction Senior Member

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    #1 consensual_induction, Aug 26, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2019
    coming from evo x and sti, why pay for the markup on the type r- it doesnt have awd and that much power means some spin to win (at a bunny hop contest) insanity that you cant really fix without cutting power via traction lsd etc.

    its GORGEOUS ill say that. interior blows the doors off the other two...but how do you drive that? spinning in...never...gear with 450whp was a blast in a modded evo, but why mod for power on a fwd? i barely enjoy RWD for straight line (most fun i ever had in a car was a murcielago, least fun was either in a 550 Barchetta or a 600whp eclipse). i cant imagine u can use second gear without modulating and therefore losing the best gear and torque curve for funsy driving. and with a ktuner?

    Im assuming first gear cant build enough boost to hit max psi, but do you spin in second? if you do a pull on the onramp or whatever?

    basically why did you choose this over the evox (i know the seats the seats) or the Sti (old engine? not hatch?) im genuinely curious because i gave up on RWD cars because of traction control cutting power or having to modulate right foot and get less fun. Im saving for gtr, yall were like halfway there!

    SERIOUSLY not flaming anyones decisions, its a beautful car inside and out, and im no one to talk because I once bought and modded a mazda 3...honda is (i discovered) like a cult...or drug...i love my si and I bought it thinking it would be a fun dd. now its the best part of my day.
     
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  2. darrvao777

    darrvao777 Senior Member

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    Funnest new car under $40k (I didn’t pay any markup, took me less than a week to find an in state dealer who didn’t charge markup)
     
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  3. Groundcontrol

    Groundcontrol Senior Member

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    In stock form, Honda put tires on the car that can't hold the power. I went up to 245/35/R20 Pirelli P-Zeros on the stock rims and now I can run all the way through third gear with no wheel spin, no hopping and no traction control light. Just changing that one thing made a world of difference for me.
     
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  4. Chee_hu

    Chee_hu Senior Member

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    So I take it you've never driven one. I chose it over the EVO because I don't care much for AWD, going fast in a straight line or drag racing. I got it because I've always wanted a CTR and these ones deliver. To be honest, EVO wasn't even one of the options.
     
  5. nw_kev

    nw_kev Member

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    ^ Spot on. Change the tires and your wheel hop will disappear. The car is absolutely worth the money, being from someone who has been in multiple STI's & Evos. I wouldnt trade the CTR for anything.
     
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  6. Ctrnut

    Ctrnut Senior Member

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    im on even bigger tires with tune I loose traction rofl. But love the care and truly enjoy it.
    I only looked at the chevy camaro ss 1le and that was just to cramped for me.
     
  7. wildbilly32

    wildbilly32 Senior Member

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    Yeah, let's get a car with all the nannies and the weight of all wheel drive so I can just mat the throttle and sit there like a lump on a log. What ever happened to the idea that a driver has to drive the car? More tire I understand, but I feel you should still need to drive a performance car. I think we are all getting spoiled by onboard computer systems. Nothing is more fun, to me, than having to feather the throttle to keep the car hooked up or even not feathering and steering to prevent disaster...in the proper environment of course.

    On seller premiums...I wouldn't pay one. If the local dealer wanted more than MSRP I wouldn't have mine or it would have been an ugly negotiation.

    End of Rant.
     
  8. 23Red

    23Red Senior Member

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    I chose the CTR over the Evo because no matter how hard I look I just can't seem to find a 2018 Evo:dunno:
     
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  9. FifStreet

    FifStreet Senior Member

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    All wheel drive has it own trade offs. It adds weight to the car and (lets face it we aren't all driving it on the track everyday) reduces the fuel economy. I took those things into consideration when I made my purchase.
     
  10. MonkeyConQueso

    MonkeyConQueso Senior Member

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    I chose the CTR over an STI due to the aging architecture of the WRX platform and my annoyances with Subaru in general. I was coming from a '15 WRX that I liked, but it had its issues for sure. I figured something like the STI would offer up more things I liked to offset some of the other issues (the better transmission alone would have solved 70% of my gripes). But the lack of updates to the STI, and the rumors of a hybrid STI on the way, I just couldn't stay with it. The CTR was cheaper than an STI (I bought for MSRP), and I was instantly in love with the design and feel of it. Driving it for the first time away from the dealer, I knew I made the right choice - I haven't had an iota of doubt since Jan '18.

    As far as wheel spin, I have it quite a bit at times, but I always expect it because I know I'm pushing it at the edge of traction for the tires. Honestly, the stock tires are starting to give up the ghost (likely at 25-30% tread left) which has made it worse, and I'm looking forward to getting some better, grippy tires for summer next year. Overall though, even with wheel spin, it's not very dramatic. Adjusting throttle gets you back into grip rather quickly.

    And to address Honda fanboying: I've owned 5 Hondas (3 cars, 2 motorcycles), which is ~20% of all the other vehicles I've owned from Audi, Ford, Chevy, Toyota, Yamaha, and Subaru (of which I've owned 2). I like cars, mostly 4-door light and sporty ones, but they've ranged from a Tacoma to a Camaro Z28 Convertible. That being said, the CTR my favorite vehicle I've ever driven.
     
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  11. VinRRR

    VinRRR Senior Member

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    I had an Evo X with the Recaro bucket seats and loved that car. It's a beast, and the AWD system was ahead of its time. If I were to buy a car and mod it to make a lot of power. That's the car. What didn't like about it was the cheap interior, the lack of folding down back seat, and lack of 6 gear which made it a horrible highway commuter. The type R kinda resolves all of that. Also, I'm not going crazy modding this car and more power because FWD has its limit. Just slowly and moderately modding it and enjoy the car the way it is.
     
  12. OP
    OP
    consensual_induction

    consensual_induction Senior Member

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    not gonna lie evo x drove itself
    you mean u dont miss the windshield fluid behind the [email protected]?!?!!?!!!?#!$%#

    haha yeah sti interior was worse. i had bucket seat evox, but i like my si so so much. maybe ill go for the type r with tires someday. idk if imma upgrade, im gonna save for the nsx or lexus rf-whatever (the 86)
     
  13. tinyman392

    tinyman392 Senior Member

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    #13 tinyman392, Aug 26, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2019
    You're absolutely right, the Civic can't handle the torque that it puts down to the wheels and will spin in both first and second in stock form if you just mad-ham on it. It takes time to learn how to launch the vehicle properly to get the most out of the car and not spin while accelerating. So you don't get the instant torque of an AWD car nor its launching capabilities. RWD works a little better for launching (due to the physics of it) but AWD is indeed the best with AWD electric being by far the best. They are tricky to drive and require a little bit of finesse.

    However, once you're past 2nd gear, the power kicks in and and doesn't succumb to the downsides an FR or AWD format gives, the loss of power and weight gain. No matter how you try to turn it, there is simply less powertrain (post crank) for the power to travel in an FF (and MR) car compared to an FR and AWD. An FF layout (and MR) will result in about 10% powertrain loss while an FR and AWD will get upwards of 15 and 20%, respectively. That is, the Focus RS motor's 350 HP output is a lot closer to 280 HP to the wheels while the 306 of the Civic Type R would be 275. Then factor in the weight. Both FR and AWD layouts require a drive shaft going from the front of the car to the rear and that comes with a double cost due to both weight and power disadvantages they come with (that's where some of the additional drivetrain loss is, actually just about all of it for an FR vehicle). To sum up, the FF (and MR) layout does allow for a lighter car due to the missing driveshaft running the length of the vehicle (which means better handling and braking) with the ability to put out more power to the wheels due to less drivetrain loss. Off note, the weight and power loss of the driveshaft is one of the primary reasons why the C8 Vette can do 0-60 in around 3 seconds without needing a super powerful engine. The 490 HP crank output would put down 440 HP as an MR setup vs 417 in an FR (or about 392 in an AWD) to the wheels, the lack of driveshaft also lightens it up.

    You make a comment about driving without wheelsman being difficult and sucking the fun out of it. It's a learning process that does require skill, patience, and finesse. But when you launch an FF, FR, or MR car properly without any wheel spin in an efficient manner, there is a sense of accomplishment to it the same way a perfect heel-toe downshift gives a sense of accomplishment. Now don't get me wrong, there is something completely exhilarating about doing a WOT pull on an AWD vehicle and getting the immediate and strong sling of a full-on torque pull. The car legitimately feels fast as opposed to something like the Type R where it builds up power and pulls you to speed without you really realizing it (which can land you in quite a bit of trouble). Now that's not to say the CTR isn't exhilarating, it definitely is, but it doesn't create the excitement that something like a Focus RS does.

    Basically, as with everything, there are tradeoffs that are seen and some that aren't. Yes AWD has it's advantages, but so does an FF layout and an FR layout that tries to cut the baby in half. Ideally the MR layout does a better job combining the strengths of both FF and FR, but remains 2-wheel drive. The 2-wheel drive car is going to be more difficult to drive than the AWD and may not be as exhilarating, but it still has stuff going for it.

    Edit: why did I choose a Civic Type R over the competition? Well, the Focus RS had a cluster phobic interior that was a little too dark with seat bolstering that went up a little too high for my 5'0" frame. The STI would be perfect but the engine is well out of date and lack of CarPlay did do it for me, also I don't exactly fit in an STI (I can't get the clutch in all the way comfortably). There were no Golf R's anywhere near me to test drive, and I had the same issue with fitting in the car like the STI. If the Veloster N was around at the time I would have definitely considered it, though the CTR probably would have better reliability (and resale, but I'm not planning on selling).

    Edit 2: I don't spin in second on an on ramp because 2nd gear gets me through my entry, I spend most of my time in 3rd and 4th gear (if it's S-shaped or straight). If it's one of those circular ones I'll hold speed in 3rd gear and merge with traffic. If there is no traffic, then I'll drop to 2nd and do a pull, but by that time I'm past the point where 2nd gear will spin if I roll into the gas.
     
  14. Zystus

    Zystus Member

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    #14 Zystus, Aug 26, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2019
    As a previous STi (Stage 2+) owner I can tell you now that the FK8 is waaaaay better and MUCH more fun than it! I've also test driven my buddies 2015+ STi and it's literally the same as my 2014. Anyways, I got my FK8 at Carmax for $35k with only 6k miles. So if you want one for cheap and no markups, no hassle I'd recommend them. But try to get your own finance since Carmax finance isn't that great.
     
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  15. tinyman392

    tinyman392 Senior Member

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    If you weren't in CA you probably could find one relatively easily for 35 new (for the 2018 models). It required a day's work to find a dealer willing to do it for me, but depending on where you are it could take longer. That being said, the dealer I bought from doesn't mark up at all.
     
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