Hondata Jaibreak update

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Hondata

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Sorry to hear about the whole saga. We've been fairly careful not to promote the cloned ECU as a warranty-get-around. Most people get it to avoid the down time.

Making people aware of the fact that Honda can detect swapped ECUs (by whatever means) is a good thing.
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Vincentbrown65

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What the dealer did was not legal; according to the Moss-Magnison act they need to prove the modification cause the fault. But realistically if they deny warranty then it gets time consuming and expensive to reverse the decision.

That's why we recommend finding a dealer who accepts after market modifications and being up front with them about reflashing the ECU. We recognize that for many people this is difficult depending on the number of dealers in their area, but it has worked well for us here.
That's a great idea. I should start a thread that lists Honda dealerships that accept and install after market modifications.
 

VTECnR

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Sorry to hear about the whole saga. We've been fairly careful not to promote the cloned ECU as a warranty-get-around. Most people get it to avoid the down time.

Making people aware of the fact that Honda can detect swapped ECUs (by whatever means) is a good thing.
I appreciate that thank you. Keep up the great work.
 

Dragnet

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What the dealer did was not legal; according to the Moss-Magnison act they need to prove the modification cause the fault. But realistically if they deny warranty then it gets time consuming and expensive to reverse the decision.

That's why we recommend finding a dealer who accepts after market modifications and being up front with them about reflashing the ECU. We recognize that for many people this is difficult depending on the number of dealers in their area, but it has worked well for us here.
Wait, I thought @VTECnR said the dealer was trying to get it covered but Honda said no?
 

lawl

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This is true.

In my case, I had the vehicle's original OEM ecu in there and the dealer flew in a field engineer to have a closer look. The field engineer said he found a "back door code" stored in my ecu, hence knew it had been tampered with in some way (the OEM one I sent to Hondata to be cloned to an unlocked one). They weren't able to say how or what was done to it... but they knew, and kept asking me if it had been reflashed. As a result, Honda denied warranty on my failed wastegate actuator despite the dealer's efforts to get it covered. This cost me $2,000.

I love my Hondata but save your money on the whole "buy a secondary ecu so you can put your original back in when you go for service thing." That's simply not valid.
you'd think the difference in cost between the 2k and how much it cost honda to fly the engineer out there would be small enough for honda to just good-will repair it.

On average, the type R community paid over sticker for these things and to not get the benefit of the doubt... is annoying.
 


JW0914

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Mitsu was horrible about warranty work when it came to my EVO 10. Anything over $1,000 had to be approved by their Regional Manager who had to come to the dealership and do a physical inspection of the car before work was approved. Long story short, they wouldn't warranty my failed ACD Pump (no problem with those cars) due to my COBB AP. The dealer can tell if the ECU has been flashed for sure!
Flashing the ECU does not, in and of itself, void the warranty, and if you reside in the US, I encourage you to read my post, along with the compiled PDF, above


you'd think the difference in cost between the 2k and how much it cost honda to fly the engineer out there would be small enough for honda to just good-will repair it.

On average, the type R community paid over sticker for these things and to not get the benefit of the doubt... is annoying.
Only those who allowed themselves to be taken advantage of paid over MSRP.
  • I'll keep saying it: consumers dictate whether a dealership can markup their cars, as all it takes is the local community to organize a boycott of the dealer's parts, service, and body shop departments for 7 days, informing the GM of the boycott. This will prevent the dealership from ever marking up a Type R again, as the lost business over those 7 days will far exceed their price gouge.
 
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JW0914

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...I just want my brethren here to be clear that the whole,

"OEM ecu cloned to a secondary flashable one, so that you can put the original back in for warranty service isn't valid."

...The field engineer was with my car all of 20 minutes. He hooked up his laptop, found some "back door code" saved in the original unflashed ecu, asked me if it had been "relflashed," and he felt strongly it had been (which it hadn't) then departed. 3 days later, they (Honda not the dealer) firmly denied my warranty claim. At that time, I dropped it and paid for the repair to be made.
This isn't a buyer-be-ware case... it's a case of not understanding your rights as a consumer and being inadequately informed of the law.
  • If you have aftermarket parts on your car, especially if you're swapping ECUs, you must have a thorough understanding of the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act (15 USC § 2302)
Please take the time to read the law and my compiled PDF regarding the MMWA, as you are your best, and only, advocate.
  • Failing to educate oneself on the MMWA places the blame for a warranty denial squarely on the shoulders of the vehicle owner.
 

Learn2turn

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This is true.

In my case, I had the vehicle's original OEM ecu in there and the dealer flew in a field engineer to have a closer look. The field engineer said he found a "back door code" stored in my ecu, hence knew it had been tampered with in some way (the OEM one I sent to Hondata to be cloned to an unlocked one). They weren't able to say how or what was done to it... but they knew, and kept asking me if it had been reflashed. As a result, Honda denied warranty on my failed wastegate actuator despite the dealer's efforts to get it covered. This cost me $2,000.

I love my Hondata but save your money on the whole "buy a secondary ecu so you can put your original back in when you go for service thing." That's simply not valid.

Did you have a turbo blanket?
 


Noize

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I’m siding with VTECnR here. Some of these posts feel like this thread is two decades old.

If a high dollar engine/turbo/drivetrain repair goes into a dealership for warranty work, they’re going to have to get permission from Honda to proceed. And if a Honda engineer/rep sees the ECU programming has been altered by a third party, they can and should deny covering repair on those particular damages.

If you’ve increased boost pressure, changed fueling, or timing from factory parameters, there is NO WAY the manufacturer should pay for any repairs to those systems.

There’s a decent chance you can do FBO and a tune and never have an engine/turbo/drivetrain issue with your car during the warranty period, but it’s a dice roll. Proceed with your eyes wide open.

Magnuson-Moss should protect you if your air conditioner goes out in this scenario, but any system that is effected by increasing performance should be rejected for warranty repair by the manufacturer outright.

Their ability to detect such things has improved drastically over the years, so modify and tune at your own risk.
 

ssjoeboe9

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I’m siding with VTECnR here. Some of these posts feel like this thread is two decades old.

If a high dollar engine/turbo/drivetrain repair goes into a dealership for warranty work, they’re going to have to get permission from Honda to proceed. And if a Honda engineer/rep sees the ECU programming has been altered by a third party, they can and should deny covering repair on those particular damages.

If you’ve increased boost pressure, changed fueling, or timing from factory parameters, there is NO WAY the manufacturer should pay for any repairs to those systems.

There’s a decent chance you can do FBO and a tune and never have an engine/turbo/drivetrain issue with your car during the warranty period, but it’s a dice roll. Proceed with your eyes wide open.

Magnuson-Moss should protect you if your air conditioner goes out in this scenario, but any system that is effected by increasing performance should be rejected for warranty repair by the manufacturer outright.

Their ability to detect such things has improved drastically over the years, so modify and tune at your own risk.
If I were a dealer, I wouldn't warranty the AC either lol... ECU can go beyond OEM set redline, meaning that now, the pump which is driven by the belt, which is in turn driven by crank, is now being "over-driven". I feel like if one does a 5WHY, almost everything can be denied.

My seat bolster foam is breaking down and is loose...
-->Why... because I sit in the seat and my love handles press against it
-->Why...because I have a Type-R and love to feel lateral G's
-->Why...because I can reach 1.2G's in my Type-R
-->Why...because I enabled Traction Control by Hondata
-->Why...because I jailbroke my ECU

QED: Seat bolster not covered under warranty due to customer exerting lateral G-forces on the foam greater than intended from the OEM.

Obviously this is an overly exaggerated satirical example, but one that gets the point across. Systems are very tied to one another, it's difficult to completely separate at times. While frustrating, I think everyone can see both sides of the story. Customer wants to be protected from Factory Defect, and dealer wants to make sure they won't be denied warranty work (no one wants to work for free).
 

PrisonerOfDoom

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I was able to use flashpro on my ecu that was originally jailbroken by Ktuner. Just a heads up for those thinking of switching.

I'll post an update if anything goes wrong lol. So far so good
Good to hear! Let us know what your thoughts are on Hondata vs. Tuner.
 

02SilverSiHB

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Good to hear! Let us know what your thoughts are on Hondata vs. Tuner.
So the Traction Control is great. I haven't noticed my tires breaking loose and going nuts like they did before in 1st and 2nd with ktuner's dampened torque calibration (I'm on factory wheels, but with "all season" tires 245/35).

With the hondata calibration I noticed right away it feels more controlled 1st through 2nd than how it felt with ktuner's calibration.
The hondata calibration I'm using, makes 3rd gear feel like you gained tons of power...takes off like crazy, but doesn't lose traction, it feels under control and power delivery feels perfect.

So far I'm enjoying the calibrations hondata has over ktuner. I never had, or maybe never will, a chance to go get a custom tune.
I'm just running HKS Legamax and AFE intake
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