Help please! angry with Honda America! please comment

[Gruber]

OH and don't let your dealership tell you that, "A rock hit your ac condenser unit and that it's road hazard damage" because they tried to tell me that until I called corporate Honda. So many dealerships have gotten away with telling people it's road hazard damage and it's a scam!!!!!!

Rocks and pebbles destroying Honda air conditioning is a tradition.

"This damage is defined as damage to the condenser that was caused as a result of rocks, pebbles or other road debris striking the condenser."

There was a class action against Honda involving 2005-2007 Honda Odyssey, 2002-2004 Honda CR-V, or 2004 Acura TSX. Seems like Honda was forced to pay and install some screens to protect the condensers. 10 years later apparently rocks and pebbles still are destroying 2017 Honda AC systems.
This is weird. I thought the Japanese were known for perfecting their products. We drove our Mazda minivan for 18 years and well over 200 kmiles without paying a cent to maintain the AC.
But... a thinner condenser is a cheaper, lighter, and more efficient condenser.

https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit...nditioningcompressor-class-action-settlement/

On the other hand, the following is just a consumer being greedy:

Anyone have A/C fail on an older Honda CRV

Post by Browser » Fri Jun 19, 2015 2:08 pm

The A/C went out on my 2002 Honda CRV with 170K miles during a long trip. A search on the internet indicates that CRVs may be prone to this problem and might require the entire A/C system to be replaced. I'm scheduled to have it seen at a local garage now that I've finally reached my destination driving in the frying heat. Doing my homework in the meantime and just wondering if anyone has experienced this problem with their older CRV and what you can tell me about it. I'm concerned this could be an expensive proposition to repair. I've always thought my CRV was pretty bulletproof but now I'm wondering...
We don't know where we are, or where we're going -- but we're making good time.

After 170 kmiles and 13 years still hoping for Honda fixing the car because "may be prone to problems"? A car compressor working for 13 years and 170 kmiles may be a definition of "not being prone to problems." This might mean very different thing for different drivers - someone may be driving in a moderate climate and using the AC only in the summer, moderately, or someone living in south Texas or Florida and using it anytime the car is moving. But still... car manufacturers design cars for 10 -12 years max.

The real problem is that AC replacement is excessively expensive. People change that AMSOIL every 3000 miles and worry about the transmission or the turbo and then get hit unexpectedly with thousands of dollars bill for such a silly (but indispensable) thing as A/C. Which may be half or even 100% of an older car value.... Then they feel cheated and they get mad and desperate.

The key is to accept the truth. The truth will set you free. If the AC compressor fails, it might destroy all the system and you will need to pay a lot of money after warranty. I wouldn't count on class action lawsuits. I know that, so I accepted the truth that the AC in our CR-V can fail at any time, particularly when being abused by a driver who is not me. Then it will be the new AC instead of a liposuction or a dental implant.

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[BestCarEver]

Ok, it is a long story...
My 2016 civic ex blows warm air a month ago. my local dealer estimated over $1k for repair but he filed goodwill warranty request for me since I am just out of warranty for two months and very low milege 20k. It took more than 2 weeks, during which time, I relocated from NorthEast (PA) to Texas for job.

I wasn't expecting but a few days after I arrived at Texas, PA dealer called me and told me the case is approved, I pay out of pocket 150, goodwill warranty covers rest.

But I am already in Texas. So I figure the only way is to call Honda america to transfer my offer to local TX dealer.
I called honda america and opened a case. It seemed promising at first to get my warranty approved, they connected me to a local TX dealer to do the diagnosis. And then, TX dealer called me he got the part he ordered, it is so hot in Texas, I thought to fix it first, then wait to get whatever reimbursement Honda approves.
The dealer did fix the AC, and I paid $600 out of pocket to the dealer, but now Honda america saying they can't continue my case because I had the repair done.

WTF !! how does the repair done get to do with anything with their approval process? can't they just reimburse me with whatever amount they approve finally?
They keep saying the repair is not authorized, but who knows how long it will takes them to approve, in the mean time, I can't just wait around in the heat.
If they approve my original offer, can't they just reimburse me 600-150=450?
So pissed off.

my argument is there is a approved offer there in PA, just because of bad timing, I can't take the original offer and need to transfer a similar offer here in TX.
please comment which party is being unreasonable?

Dude.. My 2016 had a failed AC as well, under 3 years, but over milage. Honda charged me $120 CND to diagnose, then $573 CND to install the parts supplied by Honda. I am out $760 CND with taxes with their fabulous goodwill. This is a known issue, the only thing we can hope for is a class action lawsuit to join. This is a major quality FAIL.

 

[Craigman45]

Unfortunate situation, but maybe what is even more unfortunate & frustrating, is that all your original A/C probably needed was to be topped back up with refrigerant.
- something you could have done for yourself for about $100 (Gauge + 2 cans of Refrigerant), and having bought the initial Gauge, you would have had another few top-ups left in the cans as well for the next few years,

have you seen how much the refrigerant for our cars cost? something like a grand to evac and refill, some kind of butane based garbage that doesnt even cool the cabin enough. what a scam!

 

[SCOPESYS]

have you seen how much the refrigerant for our cars cost? something like a grand to evac and refill, some kind of butane based garbage that doesnt even cool the cabin enough. what a scam!

The R1234YF is more expensive than the older R123, but not that much more.
$1000 !!! Where are you getting that done, and how much are they overcharging you for the Refrigerant and Labor. THAT's The SCAM

R1234YF is about $725 for a 10lb container. (2019 prices)
Civic uses about 1.5 lb (difficult to find exact data) so that is $725 * 1.5 / 10 SO about $100 of R1234yf.
Add Oil, new dryer filter and you are up to a max of $150 in parts.
2 Hours at $125 / hr = Total Parts & labor of $400

So $1000 is about a 250% OVERCHARGE Scam !!!
(or did I screw up with my numbers ?? )

 

[Craigman45]

The R1234YF is more expensive than the older R123, but not that much more.
$1000 !!! Where are you getting that done, and how much are they overcharging you for the Refrigerant and Labor. THAT's The SCAM

R1234YF is about $725 for a 10lb container. (2019 prices)
Civic uses about 1.5 lb (difficult to find exact data) so that is $725 * 1.5 / 10 SO about $100 of R1234yf.
Add Oil, new dryer filter and you are up to a max of $150 in parts.
2 Hours at $125 / hr = Total Parts & labor of $400

So $1000 is about a 250% OVERCHARGE Scam !!!
(or did I screw up with my numbers ?? )

I meant you have to get the 10lb container.yes a 1000 is a little high I added a touch of drama in my writing...

 

[SCOPESYS]

I meant you have to get the 10lb container.yes a 1000 is a little high I added a touch of drama in my writing...

Actually, unless you have a current A/C Certification/License, I don't think you can legally purchase a 10lb Container.
You can however purchase 8oz cans. (say on Ebay)

You hopefully will only need one can (or less) to top up your A/C, and if you don't have a bad leak -- ie only temporarily dried up seals (from non use), you might be OK.

If you find that you are constantly needing to top up, even when you use the A/C regularly, then you probably do have a more serious leak situation, and will need to take more drastic/expensive action.

BTW . Talking about Honda A/C came across something interesting about the Oil that Honda recommends for use with the R1234YF

Seems that Honda is going in a different recommendation for the A/C oil, than all the other car manufacturers, which may be a little alarming ...

Honda is requiring POE compressor oil for their R1234yf system and not PAG (like other OEMs).

ref: https://rts.i-car.com/collision-repair-news/honda-oil-requirements-for-ac-systems-with-r-1234yf.html

Did you notice the A/C refrigerant that is in the new 2016 Honda Civic? It's R-1234yf and it’s no typo that Honda is requiring POE compressor oil for this system and not PAG (like other OEMs).

According to Honda, POE oil is being used because it's nonconductive and it's not as flammable as PAG. The 2016 Pilot, Civic, and Fit EV are using R-1234yf. As new models are redesigned or introduced, they will have R-1234yf with POE oil. The POE oil that is required for this system on Honda vehicles is not the same oil that is required for hybrids. Honda has three types of POE oil, and the POE required for R-1234yf is its own specific product. As always, check the vehicle labels for the correct refrigerant and oil before starting any work on the system.

Wonder if this has any correlation to the high of Recent Honda Civic's A/C Failures ??

 

[fuhongl]

Dude.. My 2016 had a failed AC as well, under 3 years, but over milage. Honda charged me $120 CND to diagnose, then $573 CND to install the parts supplied by Honda. I am out $760 CND with taxes with their fabulous goodwill. This is a known issue, the only thing we can hope for is a class action lawsuit to join. This is a major quality FAIL.

Ok, I did sign that post from that attorney about the class action lawsuit. Then there was this paralegal called me and wrote down my experience.
Hope that lawsuit happen someday.

 

[fuhongl]

The R1234YF is more expensive than the older R123, but not that much more.
$1000 !!! Where are you getting that done, and how much are they overcharging you for the Refrigerant and Labor. THAT's The SCAM

R1234YF is about $725 for a 10lb container. (2019 prices)
Civic uses about 1.5 lb (difficult to find exact data) so that is $725 * 1.5 / 10 SO about $100 of R1234yf.
Add Oil, new dryer filter and you are up to a max of $150 in parts.
2 Hours at $125 / hr = Total Parts & labor of $400

So $1000 is about a 250% OVERCHARGE Scam !!!
(or did I screw up with my numbers ?? )

So based on your calculation, the $600 that Texas dealer charged me wasn't much of out of line, considering you need to add the high pressure line parts cost and labor and with tax and all.
I feel slightly better, at least I paid what I supposed to pay, just missed the goodwill warranty.

 

[jtrader]

I'm a cheap bastard, so if someone is going to potentially pay me $450 to drive around in the heat with no A/C, I will drive around with no A/C.

 

[fuhongl]

I'm a cheap bastard, so if someone is going to potentially pay me $450 to drive around in the heat with no A/C, I will drive around with no A/C.

Yeah, well, one thing is it's in TX; the other thing is you don't know how long, it could be one week, or one month;
And you don't know how much you can get, there is no garantee, they did no promise of honoring the $150 deductible offer.

You can be driving for one month in the heat miserably and end up getting only $100 off in the bill.

 

[herox]

I'm a cheap bastard, so if someone is going to potentially pay me $450 to drive around in the heat with no A/C, I will drive around with no A/C.

Depends where you live, over here it can reach 110 degrees.

 

[Gruber]

The R1234YF is more expensive than the older R123, but not that much more.
$1000 !!! Where are you getting that done, and how much are they overcharging you for the Refrigerant and Labor. THAT's The SCAM

R1234YF is about $725 for a 10lb container. (2019 prices)
Civic uses about 1.5 lb (difficult to find exact data) so that is $725 * 1.5 / 10 SO about $100 of R1234yf.

I just looked at the label on the hood - it gives exact max and min amounts of the refrigerant in the system - less than 1 lb. Don't all civicx have it?

It also specifies the exact oil to use (which indeed is POE. I don't think POE is any worse than PAG. PAG oils were introduced before the R1234yf was a thing, so they are not necessarily the best. Both are hygroscopic, but POE less so than PAG. And the R1234yf May decompose to acid on contact with water..... maybe PAG bonding the water stronger are actually better in that respect....as long as the system is kept closed tightly at all times.

 

[SCOPESYS]

I just looked at the label on the hood - it gives exact max and min amounts of the refrigerant in the system - less than 1 lb. Don't all civicx have it?

It also specifies the exact oil to use (which indeed is POE. I don't think POE is any worse than PAG. PAG oils were introduced before the R1234yf was a thing, so they are not necessarily the best. Both are hygroscopic, but POE less so than PAG. And the R1234yf May decompose to acid on contact with water..... maybe PAG bonding the water stronger are actually better in that respect....as long as the system is kept closed tightly at all times.

Apparently, not all POE & PAG oils are the same !!
There are new PAG oils that have been developed especially for R1234yf, that most car manufacturers recommend, but Honda still seems to be sticking with the older POE oil ??

Wonder why and if there is a correlation between that choice & the Honda A/C failures ?

Need to find more information I guess ...

 

[fuhongl]

So another question, anyone knows how long a 8oz R1234yf bottle can last? Assuming dealer charged all bottle and no leaks.
two year ? three years?
I know it depends on usage, but let's say in Texas use for probably 6 months a year, 7 days a week. one hour average in a day.

 

[VicPhantom]

I'm a cheap bastard, so if someone is going to potentially pay me $450 to drive around in the heat with no A/C, I will drive around with no A/C.

i would do the same thing for up to 2 weeks.
But OP was told he would be reimbursed, which changed the whole ending

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