Full bolt ons with no tune question

Chi_The_Process

Senior Member
Several vendors has posted on their website that no tune is needed for a specific modification.

I can see that if you add one part that would not be a huge deal. However if you add the 5 basics ex: intake, intercooler with charge pipe, down pipe (catted), front pipe, and exhaust without a tune. Wouldn’t this significantly change the A/F balance? What significant impact or harm can you cause with a Hondata or KTuner?

Food for thought during corona time.
 
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boosted180sx

Senior Member
Several vendors has post on their website that no tune is needed for a specific modification.

However, If you add intake, intercooler, charge pipe, down pipe (catted), front pipe, exhaust without a tune. Wouldn’t this significantly change the A/F balance? What significant impact or harm can you cause with a Hondata or KTuner?
only thing that might make your car run iffy would be if you had an intake that had an incorrect diameter causing it to not read correct.
a downpipe may cause a CEL even if catted which you wouldn't be able to turn off but thats really about it.

To get the most benefit from your bolt ons, a tuning unit would be needed but you can run them with no tune without any ill effects aside from your wallet being a little lighter.
 

VinRRR

Senior Member
I’m not planning on tuning my car so I’m happy with just a good intake and cat-back exhaust to enhance the driving experience. Reason why I’m not going with downpipe because it will only make the car louder with little performance increase to justify the cost, and I may have to deal with the car occasionally throw a CEL even if I have a de-fouler. Same with intercooler, little performance gain for the cost for me. If I want increase in performance, I’ll go for a tune. If I want more power, I will go with bigger turbo, add the downpipe and intercooler. But for now, I just spent money on the intakes and cat-back and use other funds for visual/performance parts.

I had a GTI back in 2012 and 1st thing I did was a tune and intake which gave me 80hp/80ft-lbs bump, then I decided to go fully-bolt-on and tuned “Stage 2” which provided an increase in performance but not as drastic so I felt like I was just wasting money. I considered upgrading the turbo but glad I decided not to do that because it is another ball-game.
 

fiend busa

Senior Member
I’m not planning on tuning my car so I’m happy with just a good intake and cat-back exhaust to enhance the driving experience. Reason why I’m not going with downpipe because it will only make the car louder with little performance increase to justify the cost, and I may have to deal with the car occasionally throw a CEL even if I have a de-fouler. Same with intercooler, little performance gain for the cost for me. If I want increase in performance, I’ll go for a tune. If I want more power, I will go with bigger turbo, add the downpipe and intercooler. But for now, I just spent money on the intakes and cat-back and use other funds for visual/performance parts.

I had a GTI back in 2012 and 1st thing I did was a tune and intake which gave me 80hp/80ft-lbs bump, then I decided to go fully-bolt-on and tuned “Stage 2” which provided an increase in performance but not as drastic so I felt like I was just wasting money. I considered upgrading the turbo but glad I decided not to do that because it is another ball-game.
Intercooler provides a hefty gain for the FK8 and less heat soak

Stock IC is straight doo doo
 

VinRRR

Senior Member
From my understanding, a bigger intercooler by itself is not supposed to give you any horsepower gain without tuning. I guess one benefit is that it will help you on those hot days at the drags trip or on the track by maintaining the consistency of the cooled air and minimize the loss of power. For street driving purpose, aggressively or not, heat soak was never an issue for me so I can’t justify spending $700 on it. Then again, that’s my opinion and modding approach.
 

FK8_K20c1

HONDA The Power of Earth Dreams Technology!
From my understanding, a bigger intercooler by itself is not supposed to give you any horsepower gain without tuning. I guess one benefit is that it will help you on those hot days at the drags trip or on the track by maintaining the consistency of the cooled air and minimize the loss of power. For street driving purpose, aggressively or not, heat soak was never an issue for me so I can’t justify spending $700 on it. Then again, that’s my opinion and modding approach.
My experience stock IC made the car weak during summer days daily driving it. Totally different car at night.
 

FK8_K20c1

HONDA The Power of Earth Dreams Technology!
I’m not planning on tuning my car so I’m happy with just a good intake and cat-back exhaust to enhance the driving experience. Reason why I’m not going with downpipe because it will only make the car louder with little performance increase to justify the cost, and I may have to deal with the car occasionally throw a CEL even if I have a de-fouler. Same with intercooler, little performance gain for the cost for me. If I want increase in performance, I’ll go for a tune. If I want more power, I will go with bigger turbo, add the downpipe and intercooler. But for now, I just spent money on the intakes and cat-back and use other funds for visual/performance parts.

I had a GTI back in 2012 and 1st thing I did was a tune and intake which gave me 80hp/80ft-lbs bump, then I decided to go fully-bolt-on and tuned “Stage 2” which provided an increase in performance but not as drastic so I felt like I was just wasting money. I considered upgrading the turbo but glad I decided not to do that because it is another ball-game.
The dp alone will give you better performance than an intake and a catback together. For future reference the only parts required to get to 39Xwhp/400+wtq is donwpipe/intercooler and tune.
 

Chi_The_Process

Senior Member
My experience stock IC made the car weak during summer days daily driving it. Totally different car at night.
This is one of most noticeable modification to the car. I live in MN. The summer months can hit 100% humidity. You can definitely feel the heat soak on a stock set up.

So far the highest temp I’ve driven the car since adding the PRL intercooler/charge pipe combo is 60 degrees. I did several hard pulls and the boost remains consistent 20-21 PSI.

The dp alone will give you better performance than an intake and a catback together. For future reference the only parts required to get to 39Xwhp/400+wtq is donwpipe/intercooler and tune.
The research I’ve done. Honda did an incredible job on the stock system. Type R guys with an exhaust it mostly just to stand apart from the rest of the crew.
 

civicsi1211

Senior Member
Who has heard that most bolt on pieces can’t produce A significant gain without a tune and that the original programming stops the aftermarket parts from actually making much of a difference.
I’ll search to see if I can find the actual wording.
 

tinyman392

Senior Member
Who has heard that most bolt on pieces can’t produce A significant gain without a tune and that the original programming stops the aftermarket parts from actually making much of a difference.
I’ll search to see if I can find the actual wording.
This thread outlines, more or less, what you'd expect to see. FBO with no tune could net you up to 330 to the wheels.
 

xmikedentx

Member
Great question. I was wondering if my Cobra intake and DP/FP combo with no tuning would be bad for the engine. I like the sounds, and the cars fast enough.
 

AdamD19DFK8

Senior Member
Who has heard that most bolt on pieces can’t produce A significant gain without a tune and that the original programming stops the aftermarket parts from actually making much of a difference.
I’ll search to see if I can find the actual wording.
The bosche ECU goes by torque targets. Even if you go full bolt ons, the car will breath much more freely and efficiently, but will still be targeting the same amount of torque. The maximum torque targets stock are 425nm. Plus a lot of added power is through advancing the ignition timing, especially at the top end. Which is fuel and downpipe limited. With the stock full turbo back exhaust, you would not be able to advance the timing as much as with a bigger, less restrictive aftermarket downpipe. Catless would give the most flexibility, though a high flow cat like PRL and RV6's work very well too. I use a PRL catted, I personally wouldn't go catless just because it will make my exhaust raspy. I haven't gotten a CEL since I've installed it. I did do my intake, dp, intercooler, and full exhaust before I got hondata and they worked fine. Not saying a CEL can't happen though. As long as you get an intake that yields similar fuel trims it should be fine. I've used both the mishimoto, and now I have PRLs HVI
 

civicsi1211

Senior Member
The bosche ECU goes by torque targets. Even if you go full bolt ons, the car will breath much more freely and efficiently, but will still be targeting the same amount of torque. The maximum torque targets stock are 425nm. Plus a lot of added power is through advancing the ignition timing, especially at the top end. Which is fuel and downpipe limited. With the stock full turbo back exhaust, you would not be able to advance the timing as much as with a bigger, less restrictive aftermarket downpipe. Catless would give the most flexibility, though a high flow cat like PRL and RV6's work very well too. I use a PRL catted, I personally wouldn't go catless just because it will make my exhaust raspy. I haven't gotten a CEL since I've installed it. I did do my intake, dp, intercooler, and full exhaust before I got hondata and they worked fine. Not saying a CEL can't happen though. As long as you get an intake that yields similar fuel trims it should be fine. I've used both the mishimoto, and now I have PRLs HVI
so does that mean that the car just drives a bit better but doesn’t really gain more power.
It’s hard to tell with my Butt Dyno.
 
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