Fuel/Oil Dilution Issue Overblown ?

[civicdabest-foo]

I don't know much about the turbos.

But now that someone mentioned that it's lubed by engine oil.

Where does it get oil from the engine crankcase? Is there a hose that goes to the turbo that feeds oil to it and keeps it lubed up and happy?

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[Aurelleah]

The turbo is oil cooled by the engine. And read further in the manual, pretty sure I read in mine that the turbo should be allowed to cool after being used spirited my or for long periods.

 

[rraayy3]

allow engine to warm up before revving ... i have been letting it idle for about 30 sec (get myself organized, link pandora, seatbelt, go) and keeping it under 2K RPM - I assume this is ok?

ive read that idling it warm is actually terrible for several reasons and that the best way to warm up the engine is to actually drive it. just hard finding a balance with how much to baby or push this engine (i usually dont even hit the highway until my temp guage has gone up)

 

[Design]

The turbo is also water cooled.

It's very rare to see modern turbos requiring additional cooldown unless driven excessively hard under constant load. Honda has no supplemental cooldown, which is no surprise based on the size/range of the compressors they use.

Here's a neat little readout taken from Hondata regarding cooldown:

 

[Gruber]

The turbo is also water cooled.

Here's a neat little readout taken from Hondata regarding cooldown:

To really understand anything of this, at least two pieces of information are needed:
1. Where exactly the coolant and oil have access relative to the turbo parts?
2. Where exactly was the temperature sensor located which produced the data above.

General statements such as "oil-cooled" "water cooled" have little meaning. As in all heat transfer issues, how efficiently the turbo is cooled depends on small details of geometry, materials and construction.

 

[IDriveACivic]

Is the sky falling yet? Is our Earth Dream shattered?

 

[civicdabest-foo]

The more I read about the turbo the more I think I should have gotten the 2.0L

 

[ski-line900]

The more I read about the turbo the more I think I should have gotten the 2.0L

The majority of civic turbo owners don't read forums, or change their driving habits, and have no issues.

 

[CivicXI]

The more I read about the turbo the more I think I should have gotten the 2.0L

As far as I know there has never been a car that you can start up in below freezing weather, drive it for 1 minute, shut off, and repeat 5-6 times a day daily that won't have fuel dilution issues.

If you've seen the way I've driven my car, you'd think I would be on my 4th engine now. I redline the engine almost daily and frequently cruise with it at 4000+ RPM under high load and according to the MM, I am between 7-9k miles for oil changes for the past 40k miles.

 

[Gruber]

The more I read about the turbo the more I think I should have gotten the 2.0L

I resd about the turbo before I bought it.... I wouldn't even get interested in a little car like this without the turbo and a CVT that works well and the fuel consumption that it has. Because generally, little cars that cost little money, go forward, backwards and turn left and right just aren't my thing.

 

[averagetrackdriver]

I resd about the turbo before I bought it.... I wouldn't even get interested in a little car like this without the turbo and a CVT that works well and the fuel consumption that it has. Because generally, little cars that cost little money, go forward, backwards and turn left and right just aren't my thing.

Ha, I would normally agree, but I have to say that the K20C2 is a solid engine. Slow? Yes, but I'll bet that it'll be bullet-proof if you take care of it. Just look at all the other iterations of the K20 out there. I still see K20A, K20A2, and K20A3-equipped cars, modified and unmodified, going strong during track season.

 

[Aurelleah]

The turbo is also water cooled.

It's very rare to see modern turbos requiring additional cooldown unless driven excessively hard under constant load. Honda has no supplemental cooldown, which is no surprise based on the size/range of the compressors they use.

Here's a neat little readout taken from Hondata regarding cooldown:

I question the validity of that data. Why is the turbocharger sensor reading higher temps after engine shutdown? Why are they using relative data instead of just using centigrade measurements? They use a specific unit for time (minutes) but use imaginary units for temperature. Where is that temperature reading being taken? And again seriously why is the temps shooting up after engine shutdown on both air and water? It literally goes against the laws of thermodynamics for it to do that especially on the air one.

Makes no sense for a temperature to rise if there's no energy input. I wouldn't use that graph for any serious discussion honestly

 

[Design]

The small spike stems from the immediate lack of oil flow, resulting in heat soakback. And it's probably being measured at the most sensitive areas near the CHRA. Although you can ask @Hondata specifically in this thread:
https://www.civicx.com/threads/does-the-ctr-have-turbo-cool-down-when-car-is-off.21420/

I can tell you that the illustration is more for general terms, based on the properties of convection. The coolant continues to flow and disperse heat for several minutes following shutdown. Garrett has a good write-up as to why, comparatively speaking, when addressing stock powertrains:
https://gcg.com.au/component/rsticketspro/view-article/18-water-cooled-turbos-they-need-water

Although we could talk semantics about the validity of the data, it doesn't really change the point that Honda doesn't "require" supplemental cooling lol. I won't judge against those that do, similar to those who swear by 1.5K oil change intervals.

allow engine to warm up before revving ... i have been letting it idle for about 30 sec (get myself organized, link pandora, seatbelt, go) and keeping it under 2K RPM - I assume this is ok?

ive read that idling it warm is actually terrible for several reasons and that the best way to warm up the engine is to actually drive it. just hard finding a balance with how much to baby or push this engine (i usually dont even hit the highway until my temp guage has gone up)

I think you're reading too much into it. It simply means don't mash the throttle for the first few minutes, in order for the oil to reach proper operating temps. That recommendation has really not changed in the last few decades.

 

[Gruber]

The small spike stems from the immediate lack of oil flow, resulting in heat soakback.

Ganz genau. The sensor in these data (which are maybe idealized, but generally true) is at a place that is kept cool when the turbo is working only thanks to intense oil and water cooling. As soon as the circulation stops ( and IF it stops) they will shoot up in temperature.

But the parts of the turbo assembly that are really hot during operation ( such as the turbine itself) can only cool down after the engine is shut down.

 

[Gruber]

Returning to the owerblown oil dilution issue, consider this:

There are two products offered by an old company, which now as I understand is part of Turtle Wax (which is also an old brand):
Marvel Mystery Oil and more recent Marvel Ultimate Fuel & Motor Treatment.

http://www.marvelmysteryoil.com/faqs/

Each can be added to either the fuel or the crankcase oil. The MMO is added at 4 oz per quart of oil and the MU is added at 1.5 oz per quart.

The company answers in their FAQ the question of worried car owners: "will it thin my oil? " Marvel says the MMO weight is XW5, and it will decrease the viscosity of the engine oil by ~4 SAE numbers. So, this means that if you add it to 0W20, it will become approximately 0W16.

The MU product appears as even less viscous than the MMO. I bought it and it feels like gasoline or kerosene. 1.5 oz per quart of engine oil is just about 5%. It must decrease the viscosity of the engine oil by almost 5%.

So, the Marvel company apparently completely doesn't worry about diluting your oil by 4 SAE units or by 5%. Of course they assure you that you car will only benefit from their products. I think the panic of some civicx owners about 5% gasoline in their oil is simply baseless.

Btw. I'm quite sure for most owners the civicx could run just as well on 0W16.

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