Front brake/brake pad question

[GeezR]

I have done an unsuccessful search here trying to see if there is any consensus on front pads that ideally will last more than 3 track days. I dont care about dust, squeaking, grinding etc., the R is not my daily driver. Smooth, manageable grip that might get me though 10 track days (my typical season) would be my goal.

I already replaced my rears with Hawk race pads sold by Tire Rack and they worked well. The OEM's were metal on metal half way through the 3rd track day (I always ran with the 2 second VMS push). Since the rotors were badly scored, I replaced them with new Honda rotors.

I also added the Hawk front pads with lousy results, I think because I did not replace the very scored front rotors. Even though I bedded them in with 20 or so 60-30 mph, well spaced gradual stops, the performance was unnerving: massive judder up and down, so severe it shook the front of the car violently.

Eventually I got a brake failure warning, combined with a e-brake failure alert, ABS, failure, power steering failure, VMS alert, etc. But the car worked fine, no loss of any of those systems, tho the massive judder continued. I did numerous slow 60-30 mph slowdowns off-track after the first session with no real change. I was able to continue on track by backing my braking points off, downshifting for braking, etc but the shudder never got better and the warning lights/messages kept popping up 1/2 way through each session. More 60-30 mph slowdowns post event didn't fix it.

So I have ordered new front rotors and will likely replace the Hawk race pads since they have likely been scored by the rotors(wh/incidentally, are now much smoother).

So, my question: what should I use as my new front brake pad? Buy a new set of the Hawks and assume the problem was the worn rotors, or go with something else? If something else, what?

Sponsored

 

[turboR]

I have done an unsuccessful search here trying to see if there is any consensus on front pads that ideally will last more than 3 track days. I dont care about dust, squeaking, grinding etc., the R is not my daily driver. Smooth, manageable grip that might get me though 10 track days (my typical season) would be my goal.

I already replaced my rears with Hawk race pads sold by Tire Rack and they worked well. The OEM's were metal on metal half way through the 3rd track day (I always ran with the 2 second VMS push). Since the rotors were badly scored, I replaced them with new Honda rotors.

I also added the Hawk front pads with lousy results, I think because I did not replace the very scored front rotors. Even though I bedded them in with 20 or so 60-30 mph, well spaced gradual stops, the performance was unnerving: massive judder up and down, so severe it shook the front of the car violently.

Eventually I got a brake failure warning, combined with a e-brake failure alert, ABS, failure, power steering failure, VMS alert, etc. But the car worked fine, no loss of any of those systems, tho the massive judder continued. I did numerous slow 60-30 mph slowdowns off-track after the first session with no real change. I was able to continue on track by backing my braking points off, downshifting for braking, etc but the shudder never got better and the warning lights/messages kept popping up 1/2 way through each session. More 60-30 mph slowdowns post event didn't fix it.

So I have ordered new front rotors and will likely replace the Hawk race pads since they have likely been scored by the rotors(wh/incidentally, are now much smoother).

So, my question: what should I use as my new front brake pad? Buy a new set of the Hawks and assume the problem was the worn rotors, or go with something else? If something else, what?

All the track guys I know run Winmax pads and love them. I have W4 in front and W3 in rear...love them to death. Excellent performance and minimal noise if any, dust isn’t terrible either. For track only in front, look at the W5.

 

[handsoffsam]

https://vorshlag-store.com/products/gloc-front-pads-for-s197-w-oem-14-brembos

https://www.unitedspeedracing.com/index.php?id_product=103&controller=product

IMO if it's dedicated, GLOC makes incredible pads (at least that fit my driving style). As long as you pay attention to bedding and establishing that transfer layer properly, they're incredible. Were you running DTC60s up front before?

 

[GeezR]

I ran stock pads up front and they were the best brakes I have ever had in terms of feel, stopping power, smoothness. But they wore out fast, so I opted to add something more durable. Tire Rack recommended "Hawk HP Plus Sport pads-enhanced compound" which I used this last weekend and which led to the worst braking of any vehicle ever, on or off the track.

As noted above, my theory is that the severely gouged rotors didn't mesh well with the new pads and that I should have replaced the rotors as well. Or, run the pads on the street for 6 months to gradually bed them in. Or maybe it was the earlier stock pad's deposits on the rotors that doomed the combo? Who knows, in either event the braking was dangerously bad.

So onward and upward, hopefully. I am not inclined to reuse the Hawks from the weekend as they are likely now screwed up as well. I can keep them and the original rotors (Front Girodiscs are on the way), and use for street and back up-they are ok, not great in normal stops. And maybe with gentle use over time, they will mesh? Its the severe braking experienced on track that throws them off. And since my car is intended to be a track car mostly, I cant afford to have another experience like last weekend.

What bedding procedure did you use on the GLOC's?

 

[handsoffsam]

I ran stock pads up front and they were the best brakes I have ever had in terms of feel, stopping power, smoothness. But they wore out fast, so I opted to add something more durable. Tire Rack recommended "Hawk HP Plus Sport pads-enhanced compound" which I used this last weekend and which led to the worst braking of any vehicle ever, on or off the track.

As noted above, my theory is that the severely gouged rotors didn't mesh well with the new pads and that I should have replaced the rotors as well. Or, run the pads on the street for 6 months to gradually bed them in. Or maybe it was the earlier stock pad's deposits on the rotors that doomed the combo? Who knows, in either event the braking was dangerously bad.

So onward and upward, hopefully. I am not inclined to reuse the Hawks from the weekend as they are likely now screwed up as well. I can keep them and the original rotors (Front Girodiscs are on the way), and use for street and back up-they are ok, not great in normal stops. And maybe with gentle use over time, they will mesh? Its the severe braking experienced on track that throws them off. And since my car is intended to be a track car mostly, I cant afford to have another experience like last weekend.

What bedding procedure did you use on the GLOC's?

I don't compete in my Type R like some of the users do here so I'm not the best resource for R related things, but I do avidly club race and endurance race so that's what I'm going off of (Ill take the R out to member days occasionally if I don't want to do the trailer dance). As long as the rotors aren't damaged, I would think it shouldn't matter that much. Hawk compounds (esp. higher ones like blues/dtc) more or less lathe and rip off previous compounds...they don't rely on a transfer layer to work best like Carbo/GLOC/Raybestos/ec. The first session would have bedded them in (hell probably just two laps). The HP+ is an autocross compound, not very aggressive, with very low operating temperatures, might help explain why it under performed.

I'd say two things: ignore tire rack's recommendations...like...period, and step it up to a more aggressive compound (tire dependent ultimately) to handle the weight and stress you're putting on the brakes. I have no experience with Winmax but I keep reading about them on here. I personally run GLOC R18 / R12 or R16/12 depending on the track, but that's in a car that weighs about a thousand pounds less and is on r compounds so take that with a grain of salt.

Regarding bedding procedures, each manufacturer has their own. I've only noticed it truly mattered when using carbo/glocs, the rest I'd bed in a lap in qualy.

https://www.hawkperformance.com/how-to
http://www.g-locbrakes.com/faqwd/whats-proper-way-bed-g-loc-r-series-compounds/

 

[Code Monkey]

I run Ferodo DS1.11 pads (on my Subaru BRZ) and love them. Fronts last me about 4-5 hpde weekends, the rears have currently over 20 weekends. The coefficient of friction is almost flat throughout the temperature range so they bite cold or hot, and release immediately. Not as good at brake modulation if that's your thing. Very little dust and streetable, although they do squeal once in a while when used on the street. I am trying the new Ferodo DS3.12 next, the compound should last longer than the DS1.11 with similar characteristics.

 

[handsoffsam]

I run Ferodo DS1.11 pads (on my Subaru BRZ) and love them.

hai from trackjunkies! (hollywood)

 

[Code Monkey]

Hi back, I am still a regular on there.

 

[F20C1A]

What do you guys recommend for daily brakes? Not interested in the track. Thanks

 

[Code Monkey]

^ OEM brake pads.

 

[ManEatingPenguin]

What do you guys recommend for daily brakes? Not interested in the track. Thanks

You'll need to be more specific in terms of what you are looking for and your priorities. for example if you prioritize low noise and low dust, and don't do long stretches of spirited driving, Hawk HPS 5.0 could be an option for you as a daily pad

 

[F20C1A]

You'll need to be more specific in terms of what you are looking for and your priorities. for example if you prioritize low noise and low dust, and don't do long stretches of spirited driving, Hawk HPS 5.0 could be an option for you as a daily pad

Thanks, I’ll look at that!

Sponsored