gtman
Senior Member
- First Name
- Mitch
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- Oct 27, 2015
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If you have a CVT and are thinking about upgrading your aggressively tweaked KTuner 21 tune to the TSP Stage 1, read on...
I recently did a back to back road test and I'm posting my impressions here. It's not scientific, but it's honest, unbiased info.
In one corner, we have the KTuner starter 21 with aggressive settings for throttle, spool, ramp, part throttle turbo response and with early spool enabled. In the other corner, it's Map 3 from the TSP stage 1...
The KTuner tune feels really potent down low. Just a little press of the throttle at low-ish rpm and it almost feels "jumpy". Lag is almost non-existent.
The TSP tune almost feels stock by comparison down low. Response is slower compared to the KTuner 21 with the same throttle input and I feel a touch of lag.
I repeatedly tried this same move with both tunes. After going a steady 35mph, I sped up to pass a car. Using a light jab of the throttle. The KTuner made the move with ease. The TSP tune had me disappointed with the lack of oomph with the same throttle input. In time, I realized to get the same lag free, quick acceleration as the KTuner 21, I had to give a deeper throttle press. It was almost like comparing the normal stock tune to the eco stock tune as far as throttle response. This is my only "gripe" with the TSP tune.
If you are used to an aggressively tweaked Starter 21, the TSP tune will disappoint slightly down low. This is on the CVT. I know the MT setup is more potent down low.
Midrange acceleration is similar on both tunes with a slight edge to the TSP map 3.
Above 4000 or so and especially above 5000 rpm, the TSP tune pulls ahead, literally. The aggressive KTuner 21 just loses a head of steam past 5000 rpm. As great as the KTuner tune feels down low, it disappoints up top.
So, the KTuner 21 feels amazing around town and good on the highway but not as good when you really push the rpms. On the other hand, the TSP tune is only "OK" at lower speeds but when pushed, turns into a race car. It loves being in the higher rpms.
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Why do the tunes feel so different? Well, here's my theory keeping in mind I'm not a tuner but I'll give it a shot...
With the KTuner 21 set aggressively with early spool on and the throttle, turbo and spool set aggressively, everything seems to happen quicker... up to a point. The car feels like a bit of a monster with not a lot of throttle. At first it feels like the perfect tune. Then you push it hard at higher rpm and the excitement becomes more like "where did the oomph go?". It's almost like all the power is in the first 2/3 of throttle movement. But this overall setup is great for 90% of driving. Only when you push it hard does it disappoint a bit.
The TSP tune by Derek is a bit different. It definitely feels less responsive at low rpm with the same throttle input but the deeper you go into throttle and the higher the rpm, the better it gets. Throttle seems much more linear. It's like the tune is totally controlled by the pressure applied by your right foot. Sure it takes a more deliberate throttle press to get into the power, but when you get used to it, you realize how beautifully designed this tune is.
I'm guessing the TSP tune doesn't spool early and only has slightly improved tweaks for throttle and ramp. But, that's just a guess. I can also tell you I'm consistently getting a couple mpg more with the TSP tune so the softer low end helps in that regard.
Hope this helps anyone currently running a CVT w/an aggressive KTuner 21 setup thinking about a TSP Stage 1.
I recently did a back to back road test and I'm posting my impressions here. It's not scientific, but it's honest, unbiased info.
In one corner, we have the KTuner starter 21 with aggressive settings for throttle, spool, ramp, part throttle turbo response and with early spool enabled. In the other corner, it's Map 3 from the TSP stage 1...
The KTuner tune feels really potent down low. Just a little press of the throttle at low-ish rpm and it almost feels "jumpy". Lag is almost non-existent.
The TSP tune almost feels stock by comparison down low. Response is slower compared to the KTuner 21 with the same throttle input and I feel a touch of lag.
I repeatedly tried this same move with both tunes. After going a steady 35mph, I sped up to pass a car. Using a light jab of the throttle. The KTuner made the move with ease. The TSP tune had me disappointed with the lack of oomph with the same throttle input. In time, I realized to get the same lag free, quick acceleration as the KTuner 21, I had to give a deeper throttle press. It was almost like comparing the normal stock tune to the eco stock tune as far as throttle response. This is my only "gripe" with the TSP tune.
If you are used to an aggressively tweaked Starter 21, the TSP tune will disappoint slightly down low. This is on the CVT. I know the MT setup is more potent down low.
Midrange acceleration is similar on both tunes with a slight edge to the TSP map 3.
Above 4000 or so and especially above 5000 rpm, the TSP tune pulls ahead, literally. The aggressive KTuner 21 just loses a head of steam past 5000 rpm. As great as the KTuner tune feels down low, it disappoints up top.
So, the KTuner 21 feels amazing around town and good on the highway but not as good when you really push the rpms. On the other hand, the TSP tune is only "OK" at lower speeds but when pushed, turns into a race car. It loves being in the higher rpms.
--------------
Why do the tunes feel so different? Well, here's my theory keeping in mind I'm not a tuner but I'll give it a shot...
With the KTuner 21 set aggressively with early spool on and the throttle, turbo and spool set aggressively, everything seems to happen quicker... up to a point. The car feels like a bit of a monster with not a lot of throttle. At first it feels like the perfect tune. Then you push it hard at higher rpm and the excitement becomes more like "where did the oomph go?". It's almost like all the power is in the first 2/3 of throttle movement. But this overall setup is great for 90% of driving. Only when you push it hard does it disappoint a bit.
The TSP tune by Derek is a bit different. It definitely feels less responsive at low rpm with the same throttle input but the deeper you go into throttle and the higher the rpm, the better it gets. Throttle seems much more linear. It's like the tune is totally controlled by the pressure applied by your right foot. Sure it takes a more deliberate throttle press to get into the power, but when you get used to it, you realize how beautifully designed this tune is.
I'm guessing the TSP tune doesn't spool early and only has slightly improved tweaks for throttle and ramp. But, that's just a guess. I can also tell you I'm consistently getting a couple mpg more with the TSP tune so the softer low end helps in that regard.
Hope this helps anyone currently running a CVT w/an aggressive KTuner 21 setup thinking about a TSP Stage 1.
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