FlashPro Flex Fuel support

OP
OP
Hondata

Hondata

Hondata
Elite Sponsor
Joined
Nov 27, 2015
Threads
99
Messages
911
Reaction score
2,498
Location
Torrance California
Website
www.hondata.com
Vehicle(s)
23' Type R,22' Civic Si,18' Accord 2.0T,17' FK8
Vehicle Showcase
1
Country flag
does hondata work best with sirimoto? What do you guys recommend?
All of the kits use gauges from either Innovate or zietronics, so the kit is down to the fuel lines used, the wiring and the layout. Of you can make you own with a gauge. Personally I just have a Innovate gauge under the hood running to ECT2 and if I need to look at the ethanol content it is on the dash display. That way I don't need to cut up the dash to put the gauge inside somewhere.

I was just wondering if all other aspects of the map would be a better tune for my set e30-e40 mixture.
Don't underestimate how important the air charge by boost is to keep the fuel pump from maxing out. Also fuel and ignition automatic adjustment is a good thing.
Sponsored

 

CWCTR2018

Banned
Banned
First Name
John
Joined
May 11, 2018
Threads
27
Messages
526
Reaction score
117
Location
Colorado
Vehicle(s)
CTR
Country flag
Can hondata put out a video on the sensor/fuel line install to help promote this tune. I am sure if is pretty simple but I am not about to hire someone nor start taking my car apart. I have a good idea what needs to be done
 

ruddyrid@procivic

Elite Sponsor
Joined
Feb 16, 2016
Threads
0
Messages
62
Reaction score
48
Location
Ventura, CA
Vehicle(s)
FB6 (Sold)
Country flag
Do you have the install video or manual instructions that I can read before purchasing?
Yes we do, please DM us so we can provide you with a copy of our installation instructions.
 
Last edited:

ruddyrid@procivic

Elite Sponsor
Joined
Feb 16, 2016
Threads
0
Messages
62
Reaction score
48
Location
Ventura, CA
Vehicle(s)
FB6 (Sold)
Country flag
Can hondata put out a video on the sensor/fuel line install to help promote this tune. I am sure if is pretty simple but I am not about to hire someone nor start taking my car apart. I have a good idea what needs to be done
Check out the installation instructions in my previous post to see what the process is like.
 

bobafettm

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2017
Threads
12
Messages
733
Reaction score
844
Location
Metro Detroit, MI
Vehicle(s)
2006 Lotus Exige; 2018 & 2021 Honda Type R
Country flag
Also another piece would during installation you are using the bracket space where many of us have a oil catch can. I'm not sure if we can use these same mounts when that already exists there.
 


CWCTR2018

Banned
Banned
First Name
John
Joined
May 11, 2018
Threads
27
Messages
526
Reaction score
117
Location
Colorado
Vehicle(s)
CTR
Country flag
With V3.3.4 we have added Flex Fuel support to the FK8. This uses a ethanol content analyzer connected to the ECT2 input to modify fuel, ignition & boost to run at any level of fuel ethanol content without reflashing.

This is a big deal for the FK8 because this single modification (Flex Fuel support) running 40% ethanol will add more power than an intake, downpipe, exhaust and intercooler combined. Before you ask... if you run Flex Fuel and then an intake, downpipe, exhaust and intercooler you only get marginal gains (~10hp) over just Flex Fuel. Diminishing marginal utility of modifications.

Since the FK8 fuel pump flows so little what we have done is add a air charge by ethanol table which limits air charge so that the fuel pump will be within its limits no matter what ethanol content you run. 0 to 85% works. Peak power is right at 40% ethanol.

Make sure you have our Traction Control enabled.

Can you explain how the boost being reduced creates more power? Maybe I am reading this wrong. I am concerned living in Colorado where elevation ranges from 5000-6800ft. I am on the hondata e30 tune with no sensor and would like to upgrade adding more ethanol to increase my power. Sirmoto claims I could use up to E85 but I do not see how this can be good for your fuel pump or fuel lines in a non flex fuel car from the factory.

Also being at a higher elevation would i reap the benefits of the new E40 HP/TQ power band with the car now tuned to produce less boost over the E30 tune ? Or are you saying i would create less boost after E40?

10th Gen Civic Type R (FK8) Specs
  • Gains of 65+ hp and 70+ lb-ft of torque with just a Hondata Base Map!
    • Available Base Calibrations will provide peak performance at ~40% ethanol (E40) concentrations.
    • The FlashPro has a specific safety strategy for the Type R: boost will decrease as ethanol concentrations surpass 30% (E30) mixtures.
    • Boost is reduced in this manner because the stock High Pressure Direct Injection Fuel Pump cannot supply the necessary fuel volume for full boost at E40. Even with the reduced boost, your Type R will make more power running E40 compared to E30.
  • Compatible with Hondata FlashPro.
 

high718

Senior Member
First Name
Andrew
Joined
May 31, 2018
Threads
7
Messages
147
Reaction score
141
Location
Tampa florida
Vehicle(s)
18 Civic Type R, 10 Acura TSX, 16 Yamaha R1
Country flag
Looking at the instructions for this kit. It seems that if you have a catchcan they might not be able to mount them next to each other. Where the coarse stud is located a catchcan seems to look very close. It would be nice if your able to mount that sensor in the opposite direction.

Honda Civic 10th gen FlashPro Flex Fuel support BBBCE23E-59EE-4F1F-AB0B-12ED088226F5


Honda Civic 10th gen FlashPro Flex Fuel support 871EA85A-F718-45FA-AE32-D8A11A0A8F08
 

boosted180sx

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2017
Threads
25
Messages
5,038
Reaction score
5,087
Location
torrance, ca
Vehicle(s)
2017 CTR, 2016 ILX
Country flag
Also another piece would during installation you are using the bracket space where many of us have a oil catch can. I'm not sure if we can use these same mounts when that already exists there.
i have a mishimoto catch can there and it looks like it will block. I guess its time to relocate that thing.
 
OP
OP
Hondata

Hondata

Hondata
Elite Sponsor
Joined
Nov 27, 2015
Threads
99
Messages
911
Reaction score
2,498
Location
Torrance California
Website
www.hondata.com
Vehicle(s)
23' Type R,22' Civic Si,18' Accord 2.0T,17' FK8
Vehicle Showcase
1
Country flag
Can you explain how the boost being reduced creates more power?
There are two factors - increased ethanol gives more detonation resistance and increases cooling, so the potential power curve rises with ethanol. But also the increased fuel flow from ethanol means the fuel pump will run out of volume, so the maximum power based on fuel pump curve decreases with ethanol. The curves cross at about 40% ethanol and anything over E40 is going to lose power, but we turned the maximum air charge table all the way to E80 because we did not want the fuel pressure to drop no matter what ethanol you have in the tank.

Because the stock turbo is so small you get beyond its efficiency range easily, even on E0 or E10. So with the stock for 91 and 93 octane we often would limit the air charge* and this would give more power. If you look at the stock ignition curve the ignition timing falls very quickly above 210% air charge. So even without ethanol decreasing boost can gain power, regardless of what the fuel pump can flow.

High elevation is tricky because the stock turbo is already spinning about as fast as it can, so you're not going to see the same gains at elevation as at sea level. However power gains from improved detonation resistance ie advanced timing don't increase the turbo air flow and speed, so there a factor in favor of running ethanol at elevation there.

* boost is fairly proportional to air charge if you want to think that way.
 

CWCTR2018

Banned
Banned
First Name
John
Joined
May 11, 2018
Threads
27
Messages
526
Reaction score
117
Location
Colorado
Vehicle(s)
CTR
Country flag
There are two factors - increased ethanol gives more detonation resistance and increases cooling, so the potential power curve rises with ethanol. But also the increased fuel flow from ethanol means the fuel pump will run out of volume, so the maximum power based on fuel pump curve decreases with ethanol. The curves cross at about 40% ethanol and anything over E40 is going to lose power, but we turned the maximum air charge table all the way to E80 because we did not want the fuel pressure to drop no matter what ethanol you have in the tank.

Because the stock turbo is so small you get beyond its efficiency range easily, even on E0 or E10. So with the stock for 91 and 93 octane we often would limit the air charge* and this would give more power. If you look at the stock ignition curve the ignition timing falls very quickly above 210% air charge. So even without ethanol decreasing boost can gain power, regardless of what the fuel pump can flow.

High elevation is tricky because the stock turbo is already spinning about as fast as it can, so you're not going to see the same gains at elevation as at sea level. However power gains from improved detonation resistance ie advanced timing don't increase the turbo air flow and speed, so there a factor in favor of running ethanol at elevation there.

* boost is fairly proportional to air charge if you want to think that way.
When i look at the e30 tune and then the flex fuel sensor tune i see an avg 20hp /20tq+ across the entire band. I am wondering if i will see this type of increase at E40 on higher elevation 6000+ft

can someone chime in and explain more how this will work ? or would not work as good as a person on sea level . I see reduced boost in the tune features to make more detonation so not sure if this tune is worth it over a simple e30 tune


also what happens if you just put 10% ethanol in and no extra ethanol on the flex fuel tune? It would seem the E30 tune is more flexible
 


boosted180sx

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2017
Threads
25
Messages
5,038
Reaction score
5,087
Location
torrance, ca
Vehicle(s)
2017 CTR, 2016 ILX
Country flag
do you know what flex fuel is?
In a flex fuel tune, the computer automatically adjusts boost, ign timing, fuel trim, etc depending on the amount of ethanol content in your tank so you don't have to run a set ethanol % tune like you are right now. There is no way a E30 tune is more flexible than a flex fuel tune.

if you put in E10 on a flex fuel tune, the computer will adjust parameters to suit E10 and you will have less power. Fill it with E40, and it adjusts to parameters for a 40% blend.
You have said before in another post that you run the E30 tune and don't measure your ethanol content with a gauge and you just fill up and calc it by gallons. This flex fuel tune is perfect for people like you.
 

CWCTR2018

Banned
Banned
First Name
John
Joined
May 11, 2018
Threads
27
Messages
526
Reaction score
117
Location
Colorado
Vehicle(s)
CTR
Country flag
do you know what flex fuel is?
In a flex fuel tune, the computer automatically adjusts boost, ign timing, fuel trim, etc depending on the amount of ethanol content in your tank so you don't have to run a set ethanol % tune like you are right now. There is no way a E30 tune is more flexible than a flex fuel tune.

if you put in E10 on a flex fuel tune, the computer will adjust parameters to suit E10 and you will have less power. Fill it with E40, and it adjusts to parameters for a 40% blend.
You have said before in another post that you run the E30 tune and don't measure your ethanol content with a gauge and you just fill up and calc it by gallons. This flex fuel tune is perfect for people like you.
yes i understand how the tune works.
I would like someone else who lives in high altitude 6000+ft explain from experience , maybe you already have done a flex fuel tune with a sensor to tell us your experiences with a flex fuel tune. It says the tune reduces boost, is this a bad thing for us living in Colorado? Or do you think i will still achieve the 20/20+ HP /tq through out the base band "avg numbers" and basically due to the higher detonation and air charge whatever to account for the ethanol in the system , compared to the e30 tune with no sensor?
 

ssjoeboe9

Senior Member
First Name
Jonathan
Joined
Jan 30, 2018
Threads
1
Messages
56
Reaction score
65
Location
Dublin,OH
Vehicle(s)
Civic Type-r FK8
Country flag
Would like to see the sensor mounted in a different location due to catch cans being mounted there.
 

boosted180sx

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2017
Threads
25
Messages
5,038
Reaction score
5,087
Location
torrance, ca
Vehicle(s)
2017 CTR, 2016 ILX
Country flag
yes i understand how the tune works.
I would like someone else who lives in high altitude 6000+ft explain from experience , maybe you already have done a flex fuel tune with a sensor to tell us your experiences with a flex fuel tune. It says the tune reduces boost, is this a bad thing for us living in Colorado? Or do you think i will still achieve the 20/20+ HP /tq through out the base band "avg numbers" and basically due to the higher detonation and air charge whatever to account for the ethanol in the system , compared to the e30 tune with no sensor?
can't comment on high altitude because it's sea level down here.
i haven't went flex fuel on this car but will be going soon. I was waiting to run ethanol until a flex fuel came because i didn't feel like measuring every single time i fill up. It is not my first time dealing with flex fuel though. I also won't go that high on ethanol content (i'll probably aim for like E20-25) cause i just don't trust this fuel system until i see datalogs from other users.

Higher altitude or not, the boost has to reduce boost at higher ethanol content so you don't tax the weak fuel system. It just has to be reduced even more for higher altitude so you don't overspin the turbo. Either way, this flex fuel tune should be a lot safer for you and to most people (including myself cause i'm lazy to measure) than a straight E30 tune because your not measuring the actual content that your pumping.

but hey, i think i've spoken to you enough about this car so i'll see what users in similiar altitude has to say.

Would like to see the sensor mounted in a different location due to catch cans being mounted there.
i'll probably end up relocating my mishimoto catch can instead of mounting a sensor in a diff location. I don't know yet. Gonna take a look under the hood this weekend and see if i can find another spot.
It definitely looks like you can't have both hooked up there so.
 

ssjoeboe9

Senior Member
First Name
Jonathan
Joined
Jan 30, 2018
Threads
1
Messages
56
Reaction score
65
Location
Dublin,OH
Vehicle(s)
Civic Type-r FK8
Country flag
i'll probably end up relocating my mishimoto catch can instead of mounting a sensor in a diff location. I don't know yet. Gonna take a look under the hood this weekend and see if i can find another spot.
It definitely looks like you can't have both hooked up there so.
Yeah I don't have a catch can installed there, I've got something else that I am working on that definitely cannot be moved anywhere else. It really looks like you could mount directly to fuel line protection bracket (the one they take off). I'd like to be able to run the catch can + Flex Fuel Kit, but the engine bay is sooo cramped. The only real room to mount anything is in the fog light area... and I think some track people are already putting Trans Cooler on DR side fog area. Real-estate is taken up quickly in the FK8.
Sponsored

 


 


Top