Flashing CEL, Rev Match System error, Emission System error!

[17CivicTypeR_Brian]

I don't see any other threads on this topic in the issues-repairs-warrant-tsb thread so I figured it's time for one.

I'll share my experience thus far-

Today is Friday.
On Wednesday, I made a (unusual for me) drive down the interstate to drop some form off at my kids doctor. Car feels normal until I try to do a 6th gear pass... so basically at 65 in 6th I lay into the throttle (maybe 70%?) and start feeling misses. I get out of the throttle and drive normally. Decide to try a downshift to 4th + WOT to do the pass and everything feels fine.
I start attributing the misfires to tune, fuel, weather - something.
I refuel and no improvement.
I go to stock tune with no improvement.
I try to drive in 'warmer weather' but no improvement.

If anything, the car is driving worse progressively. At first it missed mid-RPM with high boost or building boost. Then it got to where it was missing under 7psi - like 1-2psi and it was missing.
Then it started missing at idle. It now misses at idle all the time. No smoke or leaks., just sounds like a Subaru.

Car is at the dealer now. I suspect a coil or two has failed for unknown reasons. Dealer is busy and won't even begin to diagnose until Tuesday or Wednesday. I'm thinking about going over and at least swapping coils on it to see what happens. They've already said they won't be able to give me the parts by warranty if I'm the one that changes them, but at least if I can demonstrate to them that the coil(s) fix it, it might speed them along.
It's not so much that I want to rush them, but they're doing me a huge solid by giving me a loaner to use (they don't offer loaners to anyone apparently) and I need to leave a car at the airport for 8 days in 9 days...so I don't really want to leave the dealer car (with dealer Plate!) at the airport.

Hopefully I can report back to you guys this afternoon and at least say I know what the problem is!

Anyone else experienced these fun misfires? Anyone else know what I'm talking about? I have no idea how mechanically inclined everyone here is...we need a rating system! I spent like 4 years in a garage doing inspections and repairs on Eurotrash so I've seen plenty of misfires! VW/Audi coils fail for no apparent reason.

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[17CivicTypeR_Brian]

Quick update-
The dealer won't be able to even look at the car until Tuesday, so they let me just take it home and keep the loaner. They understand I'm nervous about even having the car over at their lot - even secured in the 'back.'

So, since it's home, I figured I'd do some of their job for them. I'm assuming left-to right cylinders are 1-2-3-4... if so, I've determined #4 is 'dead.' Meaning, with the car running, I can pull the connector off the coil and the misfire does not get worse. Additionally, I can reconnect the connector and it does not make the misfire 'better.'

So, I swapped a coil from another car and retried. No impact. I did not reset codes or anything at any time - I shouldn't have to reset anything to get a coil to start firing again...

This eliminates the coil as the problem. Next step was to pull a spark plug. Unfortunately, my 5/8" spark plug socket is too big to slide down the tube (TWSS). Anyone know if these spark plugs are smaller?



Oddly enough, the coil tube is 'moist' with condensed water and covered with what appears to be brown dried coke or something-

 

[spyder93090]

There’s a pretty long thread in the regular CTR forum but I think you and I are having the same issue.

If I floor it in 6th, going from 65 to 85-ish, somewhere before/around 5k, I will hear a prominent vacuum of air before my CEL will pop with a Rev Match/Emissions error. Then throttle goes to crap which I assume be due to misfires.

OBD II code reveals P0101 which is a Mass Air Flow (MAF) issue. They swapped out the sensor and that didn’t fix it. And was able to replicate the issue again in 4th/5th at high RPM as well as going from 2nd to 5th (mechanic missed 3rd on accident and got it to pop).

The known issue for this Rev Match/Emissions is the P2261 which is the closed turbo bypass valve for the 2018s and P0305 (I think) which was due to incorrectly seated pins in the harness for 2017s.

 

[NapalmEnema]

With respect, and all people should know this - HIGH LOAD + LOW RPM = death to turbo engine. You need to downshift- EVERY time. Doing that is how you bend rods and break things. Hope they cover it but yeah, flooring it in 6th at a lower speed isn't a good idea...

 

[boosted180sx]

I wouldn't consider 65 in 6th gear low speed at all. Your already at like 2700 rpm or so in 6th gear at that speed.

flooring it at like 45mph i'd agree with you...

 

[spyder93090]

With respect, and all people should know this - HIGH LOAD + LOW RPM = death to turbo engine. You need to downshift- EVERY time. Doing that is how you bend rods and break things. Hope they cover it but yeah, flooring it in 6th at a lower speed isn't a good idea...

Sorry, I guess I should rephrase that- flooring isn't the right term. If I have steady acceleration past 80mph, it will pop the light. Maybe at 40% throttle over 3 to 5 seconds? I'm guesstimating but I'm gonna try and record it all over GoPro.

Regardless, the mechanic said he was able to replicate it in lower gears at higher RPMs. It was either 4th or 5th going 90 at 5 or 6k or something like that - I can't remember exactly.

 

[17CivicTypeR_Brian]

I got a recording of it but uploading is being a B

 

[17CivicTypeR_Brian]

With respect, and all people should know this - HIGH LOAD + LOW RPM = death to turbo engine. You need to downshift- EVERY time. Doing that is how you bend rods and break things. Hope they cover it but yeah, flooring it in 6th at a lower speed isn't a good idea...

Agreed. I never realized how bad it was 'back in the day.' I used to drive my SOHC Turbo and deliberately put it in higher gear at lower speeds to hear it spool longer! Got luck with that one!
As for the R - agreed - I keep this one in a lower gear than I did in my 8th Si - I mostly limp around town but use the gear as the 'tens place' for my mph. I don't think there should be any problem going 50% throttle or more if you're on the highway and already going 60-70. Unless you're going up steep highway hills, by the time you hit full boost you're going 70-80. It just seems to leap forward. I think the tune is set up to limit max boost at lower RPMs to save rods.

I wouldn't consider 65 in 6th gear low speed at all. Your already at like 2700 rpm or so in 6th gear at that speed.

flooring it at like 45mph i'd agree with you...

Agreed. for me 45 is now 4th gear, but as long as I'm in 4th and over 45mph, I'm not afraid to lean into that throttle!

 

[17CivicTypeR_Brian]

Update 02DEC2018-
It turns out cylinder 4 had been denied proper spark long enough to foul the plug which is why swapping coils didn't work - until yesterday, I didn't have the right size tool to remove these spark plugs. BTW, you need a 9/16 instead of a 5/8 to get these out. Actually it's the metric comparable size.

Anyway, I took the plug out and moved it and it got 'better' but it never completely missed like I did before. Took it for a drive, and it was back to the erratic miss.

Swapped coils from another car after clearing the spark plug and everything was good to go!

The coil is bad and has some rusty residue on it. It was definitely moist and had visible condensed water on it when I took it out.

Car goes back to the dealer Tuesday but at least I have some good directions for them-

 

[OHMY]

The rev match and emissions system problem turned on for me today I turned my wheel all the way to right and I heard a pop on my front end. The check engine light came on right after! Any ideas?

 

[17CivicTypeR_Brian]

Whoa that's a new one! Is it cold? Only thing I know that pops is the tires as the LSD spins both wheels-

The rev match and emissions system problem turned on for me today I turned my wheel all the way to right and I heard a pop on my front end. The check engine light came on right after! Any ideas?

 

[turboshawn]

Wrong just because this engine makes full torque at 2500rpm don’t mean it can do 6th gear 65mph 70-80% throttle it can do it at lower rpm but it’s not good an not good for any turbo engine but what do I know... I would never even floor or come close to flooring it in 6th in this car unless I was near 4000 rpm. Clearly not accustomed to turbo cars. Clearly honda made n/a engines forever now everyones a turbo guru

 

[17CivicTypeR_Brian]

I finally turned it in to a video. I finally have the volume under control! Still making everything too long...

 

[EnjoyDriving]

Thanks for sharing!! The water got in thru the scoop in the hood. Plug up the holes on the hood, especially the big one sitting right above the engine cover. Another thing I am doing is to open the hood after each wash too. Hopefully that will keep the rust out.

I finally turned it in to a video. I finally have the volume under control! Still making everything too long...

 

[OBiWanCaneObi]

Thank You for posting this video Brian. I'm struggling with the dealer my Type R is at with similar issues. They changed the plugs, but the miss-fire came back after about 100 miles of easy driving. They're currently trying to tell me that I hit the rev limiter which may have cracked the Head. Clearly that's BS as these engines are tested at much higher RPMs for many hours.

I have a 19 Type R that has 8500 miles on it and has been garage kept and treated like a princess since day 1. All stock, never been to a track, never dragged raced.

I'll probably start a new thread to request advice from the group here.

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