Finally Test Drove a Type R - Comparisons

averagetrackdriver

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Dave, great write-up, especially your point about CTR's clutch and transmission. They give the CTR a much better driving experience, particularly on the track. As someone who has had to rebuild an EJ25 in my WRX, I hear you when you talk about risk aversion of doing open heart surgery on your car. It's no fun and very expensive. I've driven both cars on the track. FWIW I think the Si has a good chassis that is let down by its engine, while the CTR has a good combination of a solid chassis and a fantastic engine. What surprised me about the CTR is that if you're not careful the rear will step out when taking corners. BTW, I'm a Si fan boy who has owned and enjoyed the 6th and 8th gen Si's--both cars were just fantastic to drive. Though it's a decent car, I will admit to being a bit disappointed by the current Si.
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Dave, great write-up, especially your point about CTR's clutch and transmission. They give the CTR a much better driving experience, particularly on the track. As someone who has had to rebuild an EJ25 in my WRX, I hear you when you talk about risk aversion of doing open heart surgery on your car. It's no fun and very expensive. I've driven both cars on the track. FWIW I think the Si has a good chassis that is let down by its engine, while the CTR has a good combination of a solid chassis and a fantastic engine. What surprised me about the CTR is that if you're not careful the rear will step out when taking corners. BTW, I'm a Si fan boy who has owned and enjoyed the 6th and 8th gen Si's--both cars were just fantastic to drive. Though it's a decent car, I will admit to being a bit disappointed by the current Si.
that is very true. if the engine matched the performance of the chassis, the si would have been a much better performer out of the factory.
 

VooDuuChild

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Great write up. I would have gone CTR from the start, but in my state, you can't touch a CTR for MSRP. They tack anywhere from $5,000 to $20,000 (yes, that is $20k) over MSRP on top. I had offers into every dealership in this state and the one under me. I was not willing to work any harder to get a car. So, I just bought the Si, which, is really all I needed. I already have a race car which I was daily driving until my offroad accident crippled me for a few months and now I can't drive it till next year because I can't get out of it and steering is not power....I may need a full shoulder replacement. I say, if you can get one and not pay over MSRP, go for it. I love the CTR, even the wing. I do wish it was in coupe form, but could deal with four doors...I guess. So for now, I just am waiting for my Invidia R400 exhaust, Ktuner and PRL Cobra CAI race maf to show up. That will at least make the car a little fun to drive...she's pretty meh stock for me..but I came from a fully built car.
 

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Great write up. I would have gone CTR from the start, but in my state, you can't touch a CTR for MSRP. They tack anywhere from $5,000 to $20,000 (yes, that is $20k) over MSRP on top. I had offers into every dealership in this state and the one under me. I was not willing to work any harder to get a car. So, I just bought the Si, which, is really all I needed. I already have a race car which I was daily driving until my offroad accident crippled me for a few months and now I can't drive it till next year because I can't get out of it and steering is not power....I may need a full shoulder replacement. I say, if you can get one and not pay over MSRP, go for it. I love the CTR, even the wing. I do wish it was in coupe form, but could deal with four doors...I guess. So for now, I just am waiting for my Invidia R400 exhaust, Ktuner and PRL Cobra CAI race maf to show up. That will at least make the car a little fun to drive...she's pretty meh stock for me..but I came from a fully built car.
If you really wanted the car why not travel some where to get it? I would go anywhere in the country to get a car I wanted.
 


VooDuuChild

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If you really wanted the car why not travel some where to get it? I would go anywhere in the country to get a car I wanted.
It was really about what I "needed". I didn't need another "race" car....I really needed a daily. My CRX daily ended up going full on daily race car build and I needed something more "commuter". If I wanna go fast, I can go smash on the CRX as soon as I can drive it again. Maybe later I'll buy a CTR...but right now, for commuting, the Si is a good compromise of MPG and HP.
 
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davemarco

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Great write up. I would have gone CTR from the start, but in my state, you can't touch a CTR for MSRP. They tack anywhere from $5,000 to $20,000 (yes, that is $20k) over MSRP on top. I had offers into every dealership in this state and the one under me. I was not willing to work any harder to get a car. So, I just bought the Si, which, is really all I needed. I already have a race car which I was daily driving until my offroad accident crippled me for a few months and now I can't drive it till next year because I can't get out of it and steering is not power....I may need a full shoulder replacement. I say, if you can get one and not pay over MSRP, go for it. I love the CTR, even the wing. I do wish it was in coupe form, but could deal with four doors...I guess. So for now, I just am waiting for my Invidia R400 exhaust, Ktuner and PRL Cobra CAI race maf to show up. That will at least make the car a little fun to drive...she's pretty meh stock for me..but I came from a fully built car.
I honestly wish that I had looked harder. I had come across a couple dealerships in NY that were charging $10K+ ADM, and gave up on the car back in 2017. I've since found multiple dealers in NY and NJ that will let the car go for MSRP + $1K in accessories. That's not too terrible. I haven't completely decided to make the swap yet (the SI tuned is a really great car), but my wife and I are in love with the idea of having dueling beasts in the garage - CTR for me, and the next gen STI for her. If it puts a smile on your face, sometimes you just have to do it. :)
 

slowride

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So Dave.........do you think the Type "R" is worth $10,000 more than a SI??

10 large can buy you a LOT of fun mods! :D
The Type-R is worth 10k more than an Si because it is worth more at retail. Modding an Si doesn't mean shit because your warranty is gone and the resale on aftermarket parts decline and installation is sunk cost you'll never get back.

So yes, the Type-R is worth more.
 

Cscott_xGen

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The Type-R is worth 10k more than an Si because it is worth more at retail. Modding an Si doesn't mean shit because your warranty is gone and the resale on aftermarket parts decline and installation is sunk cost you'll never get back.

So yes, the Type-R is worth more.

I think the value in parts you get is worth more. Breaks / Seats / Suspension / Engine/

But, if you are looking for value and something that will be just as fun the SI is a great daily

Tuned SI with flex fuel will keep up if not beat a Type R
 

jakdotdot

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The OP drove both cars and gave his impressions on the handling and you said there's no way the two can be that different and that it must have been driver error. I don't think anyone was saying "the CTR can take this corner at this exact mph and the Si can take the corner at this exact mph". The Si handling is quite good due to its light weight but it's not even remotely close to the CTR's handling- I would say it is normal to notice a large difference in how the two handle and not driver error.
No, he gave a specific example and I called it into question. Hell, I even took the lower number as he was implying it was as high as 30 MPH. As for the rest of his review, he is stating his option which he is entitled.



Easy there, champ. There is nothing wrong with my car, and there's little driver error involved with turning a wheel and stepping on the throttle.
If this was true, everyone would be a good driver.
 


SoCalCivicSI

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The Type-R is worth 10k more than an Si because it is worth more at retail.
What will help keep it being worth more is if Honda keeps it in limited production.........
 

Spike Spiegel

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Great insight OP. I'd like to drive one too but i'm not seriously in the market so i'm SOL till a friend buys one.

I continue to have mixed feelings about my buying choice. The dealer had a Blue CTR on the showroom floor when I bought my blue Si coupe. I'm sure I could have gotten it at MSRP.

Both cars are ultimately trade offs and neither are perfect. It's really a matter of perspective and preference. I can totally see the allure of the CTR for anyone that is lusting after one. Truth be told if the styling was a bit toned down, I might have bitten the bullet on the extra $12K. I've kinda outgrown that aesthetic but for a younger buyer I must admit it looks bad ass.

I also didn't need the super high performance of the CTR. On the cluttered roads I drive, i'd be lucky to use the power twice a week. Sure, occasionally I wish I had another 100HP but most times the Si feels like plenty for commuting.

I'll bet the Si ride is more comfortable and the clutch is easier to manage in chronic stop-n-go.

At the end of the day, I decided I didn't need a quasi-supercar to drive 35mph on back roads or to get stuck in stop and go traffic.

For those with more open and less cluttered roads... I think the CTR might be the way to go.
 

destoups

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Enjoyed this, thanks. And making a similar move from Si to R. I don't find the two that different in the way that they drive; the R feels like an Si turned up to 11. But I can see the R inspiring confidence the Si wouldn't.
 
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davemarco

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Enjoyed this, thanks. And making a similar move from Si to R. I don't find the two that different in the way that they drive; the R feels like an Si turned up to 11. But I can see the R inspiring confidence the Si wouldn't.
That's really a great analogy. There wasn't too much that was drastically different, per se - it felt like the R just had more of all of the performance things that make the SI great. I'd say that the R clutch/flywheel combo was the thing that most immediately jumped out at me as being very different than the SI (in a good way).
 
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davemarco

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Great insight OP. I'd like to drive one too but i'm not seriously in the market so i'm SOL till a friend buys one.

I continue to have mixed feelings about my buying choice. The dealer had a Blue CTR on the showroom floor when I bought my blue Si coupe. I'm sure I could have gotten it at MSRP.

Both cars are ultimately trade offs and neither are perfect. It's really a matter of perspective and preference. I can totally see the allure of the CTR for anyone that is lusting after one. Truth be told if the styling was a bit toned down, I might have bitten the bullet on the extra $12K. I've kinda outgrown that aesthetic but for a younger buyer I must admit it looks bad ass.

I also didn't need the super high performance of the CTR. On the cluttered roads I drive, i'd be lucky to use the power twice a week. Sure, occasionally I wish I had another 100HP but most times the Si feels like plenty for commuting.

I'll bet the Si ride is more comfortable and the clutch is easier to manage in chronic stop-n-go.

At the end of the day, I decided I didn't need a quasi-supercar to drive 35mph on back roads or to get stuck in stop and go traffic.

For those with more open and less cluttered roads... I think the CTR might be the way to go.
You're likely right about the ease of managing the SI's clutch. Unfortunately, in my case, power mods have rapidly brought me to the point where I'd soon need a stiffer aftermarket clutch anyway. So I'm sort of stuck there.
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