Engine of the Week - K20C1 "4 Piston Cylinder Heads"

Driveitlikeuboughtit

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https://www.enginebuildermag.com/2019/02/eotw-civic-type-r-k20c1-engine/

Fun little read with some cool pics.

“We took the stock car and put a MoTec ECU on it and we turned it up,” he says. “It was easy to add 120 horsepower without touching any part of the car, other than putting a computer in it and about 30 percent ethanol in it. It’ll also deliver well over 400 ft.-lbs. of torque. It’s pretty wild for a little engine, but they’re different.”

“These new turbocharged, direct injected engines can make 800-1,000 hp – piece of cake,” Wilson says.
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360glitch

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Great article, I love the technical analysis of the cylinder head and the talk of how they improved it.
 

itrgsr94

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It's comical how so many people doubt this motor because it's different and so fresh. It can't rev, supply fuel etc.. The coming years will be really cool, patience is a virture. I'm not in a rush to tear it apart but when the time comes the market will have caught up. Luke Wilson and 4 Piston rock!
 

ctrmofo

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It’s the same motor that blew up and threw rods out. It’s not the motor that’s the problem and is strong stock internals. It’s the same problem we all know - stock fuel pump is the limitation and more specifically 2ndary external engine driven pump, not the intank electric one. It was done on purpose to test certain limits.

4 Piston rocks...will be visiting Luke in near future to do an article.
 

tinyman392

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It’s the same motor that blew up and threw rods out. It’s not the motor that’s the problem and is strong stock internals. It’s the same problem we all know - stock fuel pump is the limitation and more specifically 2ndary external engine driven pump, not the intank electric one. It was done on purpose to test certain limits.

4 Piston rocks...will be visiting Luke in near future to do an article.
It's weird how they don't even mention the fuel injection limitation. The way the article reads, it sounds like they are saying that they can easily get 800HP out of the motor by improving the internal structure and adjusting the tumbler and exhaust port design, but have only gotten about 420HP out of it thus far.
 


JayDiem

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4 Piston does some amazing stuff. I can't imagine having a 500 HP N/A K24.
 

spaghettixsauce

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It's weird how they don't even mention the fuel injection limitation. The way the article reads, it sounds like they are saying that they can easily get 800HP out of the motor by improving the internal structure and adjusting the tumbler and exhaust port design, but have only gotten about 420HP out of it thus far.
Yeah they don't, but i think they were focusing on the engine itself, not the car I guess. If you go to their website it will clearly state "Peak output is still limited by the OEM fuel system and turbo if you are still using them, and IF you max those both out."
 

davemarco

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I'm admittedly confused by this article. They seemed to imply that bending rods at 400 hp/400 tq was a positive thing? Don't previous K20 engines withstand even more power than this?

I'm also wondering about the porting that they did to increase flow. If I recall, in their previous article, they mentioned that porting to increase flow would eliminate the shelf used to create the proper tumble for the air. They didn't seem to like the potential consequences of that action. Could anyone explain what's changed?
 

ctrmofo

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I'm admittedly confused by this article. They seemed to imply that bending rods at 400 hp/400 tq was a positive thing? Don't previous K20 engines withstand even more power than this?

I'm also wondering about the porting that they did to increase flow. If I recall, in their previous article, they mentioned that porting to increase flow would eliminate the shelf used to create the proper tumble for the air. They didn't seem to like the potential consequences of that action. Could anyone explain what's changed?
Again the limit of internals is more than 400 and 400. What wasn’t mentioned was stock fuel pump limitation. Remove or fix stock fuel delivery and will get more.

Starve fuel, run lean, detonation...kaboom. Lack of fuel is the root cause - often confused with internals and ability to take on more without fuel starvation.

No magic in Motec here btw. Ran into same thing...fuel limitation.
 

davemarco

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Again the limit of internals is more than 400 and 400. What wasn’t mentioned was stock fuel pump limitation. Remove or fix stock fuel delivery and will get more.

Starve fuel, run lean, detonation...kaboom. Lack of fuel is the root cause - often confused with internals and ability to take on more without fuel starvation.

No magic in Motec here btw. Ran into same thing...fuel limitation.
That makes sense. What do you make of their porting strategy? How did they port the cylinder head without eliminating that critical tumble?
 


boosted180sx

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Again the limit of internals is more than 400 and 400.
yeah ... it's at what rpm that the torque is delivered that bends rods. If you move the curve to the right, or limit torque in the lower rpms, the internals are fine.

I'm surprised that nobody with a Motec has added secondary injection and aimed for more power yet. (at least publicly)
 

4piston

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There are definitely a few minor head scratchers in there, and I’m the one that was interviewed. One thing I’ll tell you about these things is that sometimes they run together depending on the atmosphere in which the information is collected. It can be hard on the author to put it together. I had a 550hp (not 800) k20c at the show where this took place, and I had k24 that we did for another project that was over 1100 sitting close by....in the middle of all that crap was a billet k20 head and a 450hp NA engine. Lots of people standing around asking questions about each one, and all overlapping. When journalists come by to take notes, they ask about everything that is there.

These engines have potential. The stock fuel system is definitely a limitation, but this magazine is an engine magazine, not a car magazine about the Civic Type R. It took all of an hour for me to run wires and another 2 hours to put a fuel system in my car for 1000hp...think outside the limitations of the car. My interview was about the engine we built, not the engine Honda built.

The biggest Achilles heel to this engine is the exhaust port, but it’s great for a small’ish turbo and what most people use these cars for...which is road course racing. I’ll be on track this week and I’ll be honest I turn it down a bit because there isn’t enough tire under this thing for my power.

I’ll try to share more engine tech stuff here as I can...that way it’s direct info
 

4piston

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yeah ... it's at what rpm that the torque is delivered that bends rods. If you move the curve to the right, or limit torque in the lower rpms, the internals are fine.

I'm surprised that nobody with a Motec has added secondary injection and aimed for more power yet. (at least publicly)
Alternate fuel supply definitely has been done many times over. Not everyone posts everything about their projects
 

davemarco

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Alternate fuel supply definitely has been done many times over. Not everyone posts everything about their projects
Thanks for posting here, we really appreciate it. A couple quick questions for you:

1) Some have suggested that an upgraded high pressure fuel pump would be an easy way to add fuel without port injection. Any word on an upgraded unit from your sources?

2) Without fuel, it seems that most people are currently maxxing out at around 370 whp. They've claimed that any more power than this and things go boom. Others have suggested that its the lean conditions caused by a lack of fuel that cause things to go boom. In your experience, if someone with full basic bolt ons, stock turbo, and stock engine were to add Port Injection, how much additional power could be safely added?
 
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