Electronic Parking Break & Brake Hold -- maintenance issues later on?

[NathanDrake]

Just curious if I should regularly be using either of these.

I'm guessing the electronic brake should be used every time I park, even on a flat surface? This is the first vehicle I've owned with an electronic parking brake, and I'm concerned it will go bad and need to be replaced if used frequently.

At first I was a bit startled when I kept hearing the EPB 'noise', but I assume this is completely normal... doesn't the parking brake help the transmission a bit when parked?

Brake hold, I have no idea. It's not something I absolutely need to use, but would be nice occasionally at longer stop lights. I'm just worried that it's one more thing that could go bad.

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[ICanLiftACivicUp]

The truth with electrical systems is that they will generally be more reliable. Fewer mechanical pieces, and with how I imagine the parking brake and brake hold buttons feel they probably won't wear any faster than a mechanical parking brake, which can have lines and joints fail anywhere between the lever and the brake. I have always used the parking brake in my vehicles, no matter where I am parked. Not only is it safer (oops, accidentally turned it off in neutral? car still won't move), but it also helps the transmission. Part of it is that when you take your foot off the brake, the car settles back onto the transmission, instead of back onto the brakes which are built to handle the strain of the whole car 'falling' back on its weight.

For the brake hold, that's relatively new. I figure the system works by releasing the brake the same instant you apply gas, but I'm not certain exactly on how it applies the brake when releasing the gas. That could, in a sense, put a bit more strain on the brake pads since they are being applied more frequently and in some times at a bit more speed. I don't imagine that factor being significant in comparison to applying the brake yourself, but all that might be happening is the brake is applied the instant you release the gas pedal, which means you have a bit more speed than when you would apply the brake without it on. Either way, it is a weird system, and it'll take some getting used to.

 

[david1pro]

I imagine that you're fine to use both, and I agree with the above, that you should be in the habit of using the parking brake, just for the betterment of your transmission. I've had to teach friends this, who park on steep hills and just let the car lurch into the locked transmission... silly people. I've only had two parking brakes break in my life, and they were older manual ones - the cables snapped.

As for the brake hold, I'm sure the computer doesn't let the car try to "get up and go" while still holding the brakes - even if you are pressing on the gas. While it may not be perceptible to the driver, I imagine the car has it all timed out perfectly so that you are not putting undue stress on the brakes or the transmission.

 

[NathanDrake]

Good to know.

I'll continue using the parking brake every time I leave the vehicle. I suppose you're supposed to engage the electronic parking break with your foot on the brake itself and while in park to help lessen the load on the transmission? Or do you engage the brake in drive with your foot on the brake?

 

[david1pro]

By habit of driving, I put my car in park, keeping my foot on the brake from where I brought the car to a stop, engage the parking brake (you'll feel them grab on the brake pedal), and then let go of the brake with my foot. The car won't move, and you'll have caused no undue stress on the transmission.

 

[Razer]

Meanwhile I have never used the parking brake, ever. Over years and years of driving I have never had a single transmission issue of any kind. If I lived/parked on a monster hill I guess I'd use it, otherwise no way. Normal automatics and now my CVTs and no parking brake usage, and I also have never ridden with anyone, ever, that sets the brake when they get out of the vehicle. I'm pretty old and have ridden in many a car, never heard of this though lol.

Used to never use the parking brake even on a manual, but now I leave it in neutral and use the e brake as normal operation, but I have had 5 other manuals in the past that I just left it in first on and no harm done there either.

 

[Control freak]

I'm going to resurrect this thread to see if there is any way to manually disengage the parking brake. After all, there is a way to take the car out of Park.

If your battery is dead and you need to push the car, shouldn't there also be a way to release the parking brake? Otherwise the manual release of "Park" is pretty useless.

I checked the manual and couldn't find anything, but the index isn't that great either.

 

[ICanLiftACivicUp]

I'm going to resurrect this thread to see if there is any way to manually disengage the parking brake. After all, there is a way to take the car out of Park.

If your battery is dead and you need to push the car, shouldn't there also be a way to release the parking brake? Otherwise the manual release of "Park" is pretty useless.

I checked the manual and couldn't find anything, but the index isn't that great either.

Its possible that the car will do certain things when the battery dies, like release the parking brake. If the battery dies while driving, you won't have the brake on, and if it dies while parked, it may automatically undo the parking brake.

Otherwise, I wonder if there is a mechanism on the calipers themselves.

 

[dick w]

Its possible that the car will do certain things when the battery dies, like release the parking brake. If the battery dies while driving, you won't have the brake on, and if it dies while parked, it may automatically undo the parking brake.

First thing I thought of too. But then I though of the case of the manual parked in neutral on a hill.

It's an interesting question. Of course, if the battery is dead, pushing the car will only be relevant with the 2 or 3% that have MTs, so maybe that's not a design case they worried about.

 

[Control freak]

Its possible that the car will do certain things when the battery dies, like release the parking brake. If the battery dies while driving, you won't have the brake on, and if it dies while parked, it may automatically undo the parking brake.

Otherwise, I wonder if there is a mechanism on the calipers themselves.

Other cars with electronic brakes pretty much just implement it by having a motor pulling on the parking brake cable, by presumably using a worm gear or other gear reduction to pull on the cable ("single motor/cable system").

Cutting power to the motor driving the gear isn't going to allow it to easily turn. Besides, it would be a bad idea to require the motor to be energized all the time when the car is parked- you'd run the battery down much faster.

First thing I thought of too. But then I though of the case of the manual parked in neutral on a hill.

It's an interesting question. Of course, if the battery is dead, pushing the car will only be relevant with the 2 or 3% that have MTs, so maybe that's not a design case they worried about.

My whole point was that you can manually put the CVT into neutral by poking your key into the hole inside the center console and move the gear lever. It's shown in the owner's manual, but it doesn't do any good if you can't likewise release the parking brake somehow.

For the Lexus, you pretty much manually unwind the motor holding the brake cable.

Note that the links also show a second style of EPB built into the calipers, but given the sound my civic makes when applying the EPB, I assume Honda uses the first style.

I guess it's time to poke around the trunk to see if there's some emergency release like the Lexus. Or look at the parts manual.

Edit: oops, with a motor gear unit in the caliper, maybe it's the second type.

 

[dick w]

you can manually put the CVT into neutral by poking your key into the hole inside the center console and move the gear lever. It's shown in the owner's manual, but it doesn't do any good if you can't likewise release the parking brake somehow.

I don't think the point of that is to put the car in neutral when you don't have battery. I think the point of that is to allow you to shift out of park to drive the car if the solenoid release otherwise fails besides no battery. If the solenoid release fails because of no battery, putting the car in neutral still doesn't buy you much because you can't, say, push start it.

 

[dick w]

Other cars with electronic brakes pretty much just implement it by having a motor pulling on the parking brake cable

Honda sayeth "Electric servo actuators are integrated into the rear brake calipers." This seems a much more sensible design as it really saves money and improves reliability. A motor pulling on a cable and called an "electric parking brake" seems like a Chrysler design.

 

[Control freak]

I don't think the point of that is to put the car in neutral when you don't have battery. I think the point of that is to allow you to shift out of park to drive the car if the solenoid release otherwise fails besides no battery. If the solenoid release fails because of no battery, putting the car in neutral still doesn't buy you much because you can't, say, push start it.

I'm not sure I'd really want to try to push start a modern car, even if it is a manual. I was thinking more to be able to push the car around. Say, move it out of a parking spot so it can be jumped more easily, or to just get it out of the way until you can deal with it later.

Honda sayeth "Electric servo actuators are integrated into the rear brake calipers." This seems a much more sensible design as it really saves money and improves reliability. A motor pulling on a cable and called an "electric parking brake" seems like a Chrysler design.

Okay, so there's probably no way to manually release the brake. Fixing whatever power/electrical issue you have would be easier than overriding the unit at the caliper.

 

[Boz]

If somebody is really concerned about this, set the electronic parking brake, disconnect the battery, and see what happens or what is possible with the electronic parking brake. I'm guessing, and this is just a wild guess, that even with no power, pushing the lever to disengage the electronic parking brake will still actually somehow disengage it. Again, until somebody tried it and posts the results, there is apparently no way to know what will happen for sure.

 

[Jon Snow]

I don't know about what maintenance nightmares await me in the future, but I'm absolutely loving the electronic brake (along with the Brake Hold feature) in the meantime.

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