E-15 gas on its way with new laws. How will this effect tunes?

Harlaquin

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So just read that new rules/laws will allow gas stations to sell E-15 blends now year round. The more ethonel in gas the cheaper the gas is to make so im guessing this will be the norm going forward.

First we know gas milage will go down, so we will be buying more gas. But how do you think it will effect tunes? I know when i run pure 93 there is a noticable difference over E-10 93. So will E-15 make tunes slower?

https://www.city-journal.org/epa-15-percent-ethanol
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So just read that new rules/laws will allow gas stations to sell E-15 blends now year round. The more ethonel in gas the cheaper the gas is to make so im guessing this will be the norm going forward.

First we know gas milage will go down, so we will be buying more gas. But how do you think it will effect tunes? I know when i run pure 93 there is a noticable difference over E-10 93. So will E-15 make tunes slower?

https://www.city-journal.org/epa-15-percent-ethanol
All gasoline contains up to 10% ethanol, it says it right on the pump. Another 5% shouldn’t be a big difference.
 

wildbilly32

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Not "all" gasoline in this area has the "10%" ethanol stickers on the pump.
 
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All gasoline contains up to 10% ethanol, it says it right on the pump. Another 5% shouldn’t be a big difference.
Not all, and 5 percent more does make a difference. It is more corrosive, and the more ethanol the less gas mileage. The less gas mileage, the more you pay in gas over a year. As for tunes, every ethanol point matters from what understand. That's why there are separate tunes for pure gas and 10 percent gas.
 
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I have experimented with "Ethanol-free" gas here in Georgia, and did not find I got any better gas mileage. Ethanol-free is sold here as 89 octane, BTW.
 


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I have experimented with "Ethanol-free" gas here in Georgia, and did not find I got any better gas mileage. Ethanol-free is sold here as 89 octane, BTW.
Not sure, we have 93 pure here and on highway i was getting 33.4 mpg. Not by the in car estimates cause those are way wrong. But my doing the math at refill. On 10 percent i got about 2 mpg less on my same return trip. Air on both times 70mph fairly steady.
 

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I have heard rumors (can't confirm) that some car companies will not honor warranty issues caused but higher ethanol gas. They claim there products were designed for 0-10% ethanol only. And what about older cars that were never designed to run any ethanol? I feel this will definitely cause future issues to many cars. Ethanol is a big scam anyway. Sure it costs the consumer less but MPG goes way down. When running E85, flex fuel cars lose 30%. So you lose a lot of range so you are not really saving anything.
 

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THE GAS IN CALI HAS 10% ethanol which is 91
 
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Not all, and 5 percent more does make a difference. [It is] more corrosive, and the more ethanol the less gas [mileage]. The less gas [mileage], the more you pay in gas over a year. As for tunes, every [ethanol] point [matters] from what understand. That's why there [are] separate tunes for pure gas and 10 percent gas.


Increasing ethanol content may get better gas mileage.

As to the corrosiveness of ethanol, the alternative octane boosters in modern gasoline are more corrosive than ethanol.
 

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Ethanol corrosivity is a moot point on these modern cars. The Civic is an international model, all it's hosing and rubber is of a suitable composition for handling E85, to be able to handle fuel from all over the world.

As far as tunes, my experience in using different 91 octane gasolines with varying ethanol content, power stays fairly constant and LTFT/STFT will compensate, with a resulting change in MPG.
 


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Increasing ethanol content may get better gas mileage.

As to the corrosiveness of ethanol, the alternative octane boosters in modern gasoline are more corrosive than ethanol.
Pretty much everything you read everywhere says ethanol gets less gas mileage. And corrosiveness . . . well its documented so what ever. But to my point of the thread which everyone is talking about everything else but. Anyone have any input on the effect of tunes? Or speculation of what it might mean? In Hondata's maps there is 10%, 25% and then Flex fuel which I read is best around 30% ish ? So 15% will need new maps? Curious if it will be better tunes of worse. Any one have any input on TUNES from experience?
 
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I have heard rumors (can't confirm) that some car companies will not honor warranty issues caused but higher ethanol gas. They claim there products were designed for 0-10% ethanol only. And what about older cars that were never designed to run any ethanol? I feel this will definitely cause future issues to many cars. Ethanol is a big scam anyway. Sure it costs the consumer less but MPG goes way down. When running E85, flex fuel cars lose 30%. So you lose a lot of range so you are not really saving anything.
This is my thinking. manufactures that make flex fuel cars have done more then just change the ecu and put a little gauge or something in it. there are component changes like fuel pumps, injectors and other sensitive engine parts. These cars were designed for any ethanol content. Where the regular cars were designed for 10%. After 10% you need to start changing parts out. Some people are all oh its only 5%. In chemistry 5% is a lot. It only take less than 1% to change some things to or from acidic. Anyway here is a great article that explains why this e-10 e-15 is bad and not just because of corrosion. There is many many many more things that go on with alcohol in your tank.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/hybrid-electric/a6244/e15-gasoline-damage-engine/

The interesting part is about station owners needing to upgrade pumps to handle the higher ethanol . So if pumps have to be upgraded why do people think its fine in their cars?
 

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Pretty much everything you read everywhere says ethanol gets less gas mileage. And corrosiveness . . . well its documented so what ever. But to my point of the thread which everyone is talking about everything else but. Anyone have any input on the effect of tunes? Or speculation of what it might mean? In Hondata's maps there is 10%, 25% and then Flex fuel which I read is best around 30% ish ? So 15% will need new maps? Curious if it will be better tunes of worse. Any one have any input on TUNES from experience?
The kid had a tuned WRX that ran on E85 which included different injectors and fuel pump to support the increased fuel quantity requirements. He claims he was burning about 30% more fuel than straight gasoline. It was quick but that's a lot more fuel to get there. My guess is it is going to negatively affect current tunes. My suggestion is if 15% becomes a reality don't burn w/o talking to your tuner.
 
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Harlaquin

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The kid had a tuned WRX that ran on E85 which included different injectors and fuel pump to support the increased fuel quantity requirements. He claims he was burning about 30% more fuel than straight gasoline. It was quick but that's a lot more fuel to get there. My guess is it is going to negatively affect current tunes. My suggestion is if 15% becomes a reality don't burn w/o talking to your tuner.
This what Im curious about. I know we can run e-85 on the R with tune but is the OEM engine setup the best and will it hold up long term? Every thing I read says changing injectors and pumps is basically a requirement to not have issues. I think we can skate by on 10% because manufactures have the cars set up for that but once 15% comes IM sure they will start changing the cars again. Just like 10% is bad for older cars soon 15% will be bad for this generation of cars. Again I know we can run e-85 in the R with flex full kit but the rest of the car was not made from factory to do so. So I am guessing in a few years the Rs that run e-85 a lot and with not having other changes to support it will start seeing problems from corrosion and maybe even water.
 

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Pretty sure our manuals allow for E15 if you read, so no warranty concerns should exist. It might nudge fuel trims a smidge for tubes that were based on E10... but I'd guess there's enough slop to cover the change. E10 itself is an 'up to' 10%... and our cars will certainly adjust to take E0. The cooling affect of the higher ethanol content, even if the 'octane rating' is effectively the same, would probably serve to reduce the possibility of knock. As E85 is cheaper than E10 and certainly cheaper than Marine/ethanol-free fuel, we could see slight fuel savings but, honestly, I doubt it. I doubt the affect on mpgs would be more than a mpg or two... not noticable other than those that watch it like a hawk.
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