do you trust the maintenance minder?

  1. CW0731

    CW0731 Member

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    I'm approaching 7K miles with 30% engine oil life still left. Considering its a 1.5liter sewing machine engine under boost with an oil capacity of only 3.7 quarts, I'm a bit nervous letting it go this long/far. I know oil has improved and Honda specifies to use synthetic but what about the oil filter. If a user is willing to let the engine life go to 10K miles, using the absolute best oil filter seems to be a requirement (royal purple @ $90/ filter)?

    What are you thoughts?
     
  2. kingbudd

    kingbudd Senior Member

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    I haven’t changed my oil yet on my Si, but my 2014 Accord I changed the oil for the first time at 10k. It never experienced any problems. The maintenance minder is a good system. Once you get down to 10% schedule the appointment. Honda techs I have talked to say there is a special additive in the oil from the factory and never change it early. I have also heard other Honda techs say thats not true. But my dad changes his oil every 3k miles no matter what on his Honda’s. He has never had issues either, so I think its really up to the owner.
     
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  3. repeet

    repeet Senior Member

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    Do I trust the maintenance Minder? No, but Honda apparently does. Since they are the ones warranting my car, I'll to it their way.

    That being said, I took my car into the dealer that I bought it from at 5000 miles and asked them to change the oil, even though the "Maintenance Minder" still said 60% on it. Both the service tech and the service manager laughed at me and told me to bring it back when the "Maintenance Minder" light came on. See above
     
  4. Mocha90210

    Mocha90210 Senior Member

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    It was tough to trust the MM at first, especially after changing the oil every 6,000 km / 3 months in my previous Accord. But as the previous poster pointed out, if Honda (the warrantor) trusts it, then I’ll trust it. And, I’m really enjoy going 10 months between dealer visits.
     
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  5. Curtman

    Curtman Senior Member

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    I brought mine in for it's first oil change just under 8,000 km and the maintenance minder said 40%. I asked the guy at the dealership what the regular interval should be. He said between 8 - 9,000 km or 15% or 6 - 8 months. I thought it was over due and the MM doesn't work but I guess that's what they recommend.
     
  6. kritz

    kritz Senior Member

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    My first change was at 15%(9,600 miles) I've always followed the MM but I don't keep my cars long-term.
     
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  7. zroger73

    zroger73 Senior Member

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    #7 zroger73, Jan 15, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2018
    Great, yet another "oil" and "break-in" debate. :)

    Here are some facts:

    The factory oil does not contain any special additives. There is a high level of moly in the factory oil, but that comes from the assembly lube and has no function once the engine is started and oil begins flowing for the first time.

    Honda does recommend changing the factory oil for the first time only when the Maintenance Minders says its time. Replacing the oil prematurely will increase the time it takes the engine to reach peak efficiency and lowest oil consumption ("break-in"). After that, change it as often as your little heart desires. The oil companies will thank you.

    It won't hurt a thing to change your oil and filter prematurely at 3,000 miles or every other Friday if you want. It is wasteful, though.

    3,000-mile oil change intervals are artifacts from the days when engines weren't manufactured nearly as precisely and oil chemistry was far less advanced. Some old-timers still cling to the nostalgia of the way their fathers and grandfathers used to change oil. Some oil change places still recommend 3,000-miles OCIs as well, because...they..SELL...oil.

    So, change your oil per the Maintenance Minder or change it every 3,000 miles. Just don't change it after the MM instructs. During the time you own the vehicle, the only difference you'll see is that if you follow the MM you'll save hundreds, if not thousands of dollars in oil and filters. Premature oil changes may allow the engine to last 510,000 miles instead of 500,000 - if you plan on keeping a vehicle that long. I surely don't.

    3,000-miles OCIs were common when spark plugs were changed every 25K along with belts and hoses and new shocks were installed every 50K. If you got more than 100K out of a vehicle without overhauling the engine and/or transmission, you were lucky. Plugs now last well past 100K, shocks can outlast the car, and engines and transmissions can last well beyond 200-300K miles. Times have changed - so have oil change intervals.

    Some people still believe oil changes should be performed every 3,000 miles (or even 5,000). Some people also believe we never walked on the moon. :)
     
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  8. charleswrivers

    charleswrivers Senior Member

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    We walked on the moon!?

    200w.gif
     
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  9. mis3

    mis3 Senior Member

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    Another old saying is about excessive metal shavings in new engines.

    I think I will compromise and do the first oil change when MM is about 40% left. Like you said, it won’t hurt. I will make an exception just for the 1st oil change.
     
  10. MavicTB

    MavicTB Senior Member

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    I am ignorant on this as I have yet to really deal with the MM. Does the MM consider time? I drive very little, I expect to put 100 miles or less on my car a month... So less than 3k per year.
     
  11. zroger73

    zroger73 Senior Member

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    Metal shavings in new engines? That's what the filter is for. :)

    I didn't say "it won't hurt" to perform your first oil change prematurely. I said that it won't hurt to perform subsequent oil changes prematurely. Honda says don't perform the first oil change prematurely - that means waiting until the Maintenance Minders shows 15% or less.

    No, the Maintenance Minder doesn't consider time or mileage. It considers the number of engine revolutions and operating conditions. If the MM hasn't reached 15% remaining oil life after one year since you last changed it, you're supposed to change it.
     
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  12. mis3

    mis3 Senior Member

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    I see. I will wait until 15% then. There is no reason to doubt Honda recommendation.

    I recall in MB, I was told by a technician that there was a sensor to measure how dark the engine oil.
     
  13. 250GTCalifornia

    250GTCalifornia Senior Member

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    My FF oil is pitch black is that normal? I'm at 5750 KMs / 30% oil life.
     
  14. optikalillusi0n

    optikalillusi0n Senior Member

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    Not to beat a dead horse here, heh, but i'm just curious, since you seem to be very knowledgeable about this subject. Obviously wait till 15% or less for the first oil change. But, for you personally, when do you change your oil, not including the first oil change. Do you wait a certain amount of miles, or a certain percentage on the MM, etc..?
     
  15. zroger73

    zroger73 Senior Member

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    20 years ago, Mercedes-Benz used a dielectric sensor in a 3.2L V-6 engine that measured electrical properties of the oil to check for contaminants. It wasn't an optical sensor, so it wasn't capable of measuring color. They've since switched to an algorithm-based oil life monitor like most everyone else uses that doesn't require special sensors.

    Several years ago, Honda sent out a TSB to dealers letting them know it was normal for the factory fill to be very dark. See the attachment.

    I grew up when 3,000-mile oil-change intervals were the norm. It took me several years to transition to a better way of doing things that was more appropriate for newer oil technology and vehicles. I now change the oil when the vehicle tells me to instead of how often my grandfather told me to back when I was a kid. Most all Hondas use the same oil and filter, so I keep a case of each on hand. I change it at my earliest convenience once the oil life reaches 15% (which is when you get a "due soon" message), but anytime between 15% and 0% is acceptable.

    "Factory-Fill Engine Oil Looks Dark? It’s Normal

    At TQI, does the factory-fill engine oil look less like Texas Tea and more like Oklahoma Crude? Don’t worry, there’s nothing wrong with the engine. The engine oil looks that way because of molybdenum (that’s “moly” for short), a special lubricant applied by the factory to critical engine components during assembly.

    When the engine is test-run, that molybdenum mixes with the engine oil, turning it a dark metallic color often within the first 5 minutes of running. And just how dark that engine oil gets seems to vary between vehicle models, engine types, and engine assembly plants.

    What’s really important to remember here is this: Don’t change the factory-fill engine oil because it looks dark; just make sure it’s at the right fluid level. To ensure proper engine break-in, the factory-fill engine oil needs to remain in the engine until the first scheduled maintenance interval."


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