DIY: Si or CTR Rear Stabilizer Bar on Normal Civic Sedan/Coupe/Hatch

Streetkid

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Do the rear wheels need to be off the ground? It looks like I may be able to reach without lifting. Just need to know if it's ok to do under load
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Streetkid

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Meh, can't really reach, I literally need my jack to go up like 8 more inches. Maybe I should just pay a shop..
 

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Meh, can't really reach, I literally need my jack to go up like 8 more inches. Maybe I should just pay a shop..
I did mine with the rear wheels sitting on race ramps about 10" off the ground. It's easier to do with the weight of the vehicle on the suspension because you'll be fighting the bushing trying to line up the endlinks in the arms. It's easier to remove and install the bar with the endlinks already attached; it's hard to get a tool on the endlinks if the bar is still in the car.
 

SandyEggoSi

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Cool, my bar/brackets shipped on Jan 4th and should be here Monday. I got Tues off and while the kids are in school, I'll try to get it on and give some impressions. Although the car only has a couple hundred miles on it so I really don't have an opinion yet other than I read this car (like all others understeers at the limit). So, I figured for $100, why not?? I usually throw an aftermarket (bigger) rear sway on my cars these days to get the most hookup for the buck.
 
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derbo904

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Cool, my bar/brackets shipped on Jan 4th and should be here Monday. I got Tues off and while the kids are in school, I'll try to get it on and give some impressions. Although the car only has a couple hundred miles on it so I really don't have an opinion yet other than I read this car (like all others understeers at the limit). So, I figured for $100, why not?? I usually throw an aftermarket (bigger) rear sway on my cars these days to get the most hookup for the buck.
I did the same thing to my previous commuter car (2013 Prius). Prius Plus Sway bar.. LOL
 


SandyEggoSi

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Got my bar in just now. I can attest to the fact that you'll need to set the car on the ground in order to get the brackets on the sway bar bushings. Put in the end-link bolt and tighten, but set the car down in order to put on the bracket bolts.

Took it for a VERY brief test ride as heavy rain was looming and frankly, it felt weird. Although I experienced this same feeling after doing just the rear bar in my last car. You WILL experience more grip but the car will feel a little different doing it. The front end is going to compress a little more more around corners because the rear is now stiffer and is directing more weight to the front end causing it to compress (it used to be the rear susp giving up first which was un-weighting the front and causing understeer at the limit). I've done several of the Eibach frt & rear sway kits before on other cars that claim to be something like 40% stiffer front and 80% stiffer rear and got none of this sensation of front end going soft, just a very fun neutral feeling car. A lot of people just do the rear bar on their car:

A) Because it is cheaper than doing both
B) On some cars the front bar can be a PITA and require a lift
C) You can do the rear bar only and stay in "Stock" class in Auto-X

Sidenote: This strange feeling (adding a rear bar) is exacerbated by the fact that my fuel tank is on empty right now, so nearly 100 less lbs in the back area of the car. I also have 2 teenage kids so this mod will definitely help when cornering with them in the back seat.

Anyway, my test loop is a very urban loop with ALL stop lights and signals and no real corners so I'll have to wait and see. I also don't trust the OEM rubber (even tho they're the "summer tires" that came on the car). I don't have enough seat time in the car as it has less than 300 miles. I've already done the VITtune 19/25 psi stg 1 map and now the rear sway and pulled the fenders in prep for some wider wheels/rubber. At this point, I'm still taking corners faster in my Nissan Leaf with 225/50/17 Continental Extreme Contact Sports with just a camber kit up front and stock susp. That car has some distinct advantages due to the position of the 620lb battery down low and in the center of the car (and the fact that I'm very comfortable behind the wheel of it) but I believe the Si with the right setup, tires and some more seat time should beat it in the corners.

I'll update this post when I get some more time to test the car out in some proper corners.
 
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SandyEggoSi

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Drove the car a bit more this morn. Sorry I was so verbose on my last post. Everything I said is true, but maybe a bit overblown. Car definitely felt good this morn, but still need more seat time in some real corners. =)
 
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derbo904

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Drove the car a bit more this morn. Sorry I was so verbose on my last post. Everything I said is true, but maybe a bit overblown. Car definitely felt good this morn, but still need more seat time in some real corners. =)
Thanks for the feedback! I did notice fast transitioning high-load low-speed corners did not do as well with the larger rear bar. The place where the CTR rear bar excels is mid-speed sweepers and high-speed corners like freeway clover on-ramps. That being said, I would still do it again as my commute with the Civic involves more of the latter.

I understand the Si has an LSD. I wonder if that also attributes to slight differences in accel/decel characteristics compared to the open diffs of the non-Si/CTRs.
 

SandyEggoSi

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^^^Thx for pointing out that I have an Si considering the title of the thread.

Anyway, I think what is disconcerting with the Type R bar is that when you do corner over bumpy pavement...no longer do you get a nice predictable occassional front end slip but rather the front and rear are "taking turns" losing grip on a sweeper or clover leaf. I still need more time and I just filled my tank so that should help. I also am ordering up wider wheels and tires so that will up the threshold of grip and maybe change the balance somewhat.

In the past I have taken non adjustable sway bars and made them "adjustable" by drilling an extra mounting hole for the end link on the front sway (to make it more stiff). It worked and gave me no issues.

Any of the new handling dynamics I'm experiencing should be even more pronounced if you install the type R bar on a non Si. So keep that in mind. I think if I was a non Si owner, I'd be looking at the Si bar as an upgrade, not the Type R. Or, the Progress bar as I think from memory it is a little smaller than the type R bar.
 
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derbo904

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^^^Thx for pointing out that I have an Si considering the title of the thread.

Anyway, I think what is disconcerting with the Type R bar is that when you do corner over bumpy pavement...no longer do you get a nice predictable occassional front end slip but rather the front and rear are "taking turns" losing grip on a sweeper or clover leaf. I still need more time and I just filled my tank so that should help. I also am ordering up wider wheels and tires so that will up the threshold of grip and maybe change the balance somewhat.

In the past I have taken non adjustable sway bars and made them "adjustable" by drilling an extra mounting hole for the end link on the front sway (to make it more stiff). It worked and gave me no issues.

Any of the new handling dynamics I'm experiencing should be even more pronounced if you install the type R bar on a non Si. So keep that in mind. I think if I was a non Si owner, I'd be looking at the Si bar as an upgrade, not the Type R. Or, the Progress bar as I think from memory it is a little smaller than the type R bar.
You have a great point. I do believe that the rear bar will introduce lift-oversteer beyond 8/10ths effort.

#Boring Math
16.5^4 = 74,120.0625 stiffness units
20.5^4 = 176,610.0625 stiffness units
176610.xxx/74120.xxx = 2.38x stiffer or 138% stiffer

The idea is to reduce understeer and there are limits to that with just a bar. I was hoping there would be a relatively decent HFP spring for the hatcback but I have yet to see one.


Unfortunately, the Progress bar is identical in size and also double the price.
 


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You have a great point. I do believe that the rear bar will introduce lift-oversteer beyond 8/10ths effort.

#Boring Math
16.5^4 = 74,120.0625 stiffness units
20.5^4 = 176,610.0625 stiffness units
176610.xxx/74120.xxx = 2.38x stiffer or 138% stiffer

The idea is to reduce understeer and there are limits to that with just a bar. I was hoping there would be a relatively decent HFP spring for the hatcback but I have yet to see one.


Unfortunately, the Progress bar is identic. al in size and also double the price.
That's basically why I went with the Si bar. I'm sure the R bar initially feels amazingly better but in certain high speed or emergency manuevers it might induce lift off oversteer and I don't want to deal with that.
 

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Yeah, again...for the non Si guys I'd jut do the Si bar. If you do go with the Type R bar, play around with lower rear tire pressures and higher fronts to increase grip at the rear. I would say maybe 40 frt and 36 rear would be a good start. Regardless, if you like the way the bar feels but want to make small adjustments to try to get back a bit more understeer to prevent a dangerous oversteer event, keep your gas tank more full and drop those tire pressures in the rear a few PSI. I used to have a old 4wd Toyota P/U truck from the 80's and I swear it was pretty night and day how it rode/drove with the 60lb spare removed from the back. Same with the 40lb tailgate. So, tank full vs. tank empty in our cars being a 80-90lb swing is going to have an affect.
 

SandyEggoSi

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Putting mine on tomorrow 2017 si sedan
Lemme know what you think. After more than a week, and not all that much seat time...I'm no convinced yet this is a great mod. At least not on the Si and I would think even less so for the non Si models. It does provide some benefits but also some detractors. Sure, it keeps the front more planted and allows you to put power down a little better accelerating around corners. But I just feel it is overloading the front in certain situations and I sorta wanna take it off in a bit and compare it to stock again. Especially since I never drove the OEM bar with the Stability Control truly defeated.
 

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Crap, planning to do this today but the rear jack point is already so high my jack maxes out before the wheels leave the ground.
Use a small block of wood 2x4 as a spacer between jack point and jack, old mechanic's trick.
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