Curious little blip in the owner's manual

  1. gtman

    gtman Senior Member

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    #1 gtman, Oct 19, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2019
    At the very beginning of my owner's manual there are some disclaimers. Right below the one about the black box recorder that deals with accidents, there's this:

    IMG_20191019_180000.jpg

    Beyond being used for something like the Maintenance Minder, are these recorders where the dealer/Honda can see if you have been tuned or not? Some of the wording is VERY cryptic.

    What do you guys think?
     
  2. SDAlexander8

    SDAlexander8 Senior Member

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    I’d say so
     
  3. jorus

    jorus Member

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    Stuff like this always makes me think there are just too many computers in cars these days. :hmm:
     
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  4. Gruber

    Gruber Senior Member

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    I don't know what they actually record, but with computers, memory and programming the possibilities are unlimited.
    However, it has to be recorded somewhere in the physical memory, and this memory can be removed. A new ECU costs probably less than $300 and can be obtained used at a lower price.

    In the near future the data will be sent to the manufacturer's cloud and will live forever. :coffee:
     
  5. Rickmeister 48

    Rickmeister 48 Senior Member

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    "it remains confidential" from who? The owner of the car??
     
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  6. REBELXSi

    REBELXSi Señor Member

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    I thought this was already a known thing?
     
  7. Andre80

    Andre80 Senior Member

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    #7 Andre80, Oct 21, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2019
    with the autel diagnostic under each section there is written '' ecu image '' or something like that, it means that when there was a problem or error code, the ecu makes an image or cmq saves the volatile memory


    there are several posts where '' our 'tuners say that as far as they know there are no write counters
    but at each writing the errors are deleted
    with the diagnosis you can read how many km the reset has been done means that if I have a problem or engine failure and rewrite the ecu without doing KM, the dealership can see that it has just been done,

    and a little stink no?


    Su quello ITA

    Registratori di dati di evento Il veicolo è dotato di numerosi dispositivi comunemente denominati Registratori di dati di evento. Questi dispositivi registrano diversi tipi di dati del veicolo in tempo reale quali l'attivazione dell'airbag SRS e guasti nei componenti del sistema SRS. Questi dati appartengono al proprietario del veicolo e l'accesso ad essi potrebbe essere impedito a terzi che non siano autorizzati legalmente o dal proprietario stesso. Tuttavia, tali dati sono accessibili a Honda, ai concessionari e alle autofficine autorizzate, ai dipendenti, ai rappresentanti e appaltatori esclusivamente per la diagnosi tecnica, la ricerca e lo sviluppo del veicolo.


    Registratori per la diagnostica di manutenzione Il veicolo è dotato di dispositivi relativi alla manutenzione che registrano informazioni sulle prestazioni della trasmissione e sulle condizioni di guida. I dati possono essere utilizzati per agevolare i tecnici nelle operazioni di diagnosi, riparazione e manutenzione del veicolo. L'accesso a tali dati potrebbe essere impedito a terzi che non siano autorizzati legalmente o dal proprietario del veicolo. Tuttavia, tali dati sono accessibili a Honda, ai concessionari e alle autofficine autorizzate, ai dipendenti, ai rappresentanti e appaltatori esclusivamente per la diagnosi tecnica, la ricerca e lo sviluppo del veicolo.


    Event data recorders
    The vehicle is equipped with numerous commonly named devices
    Event data recorders. These devices record different types
    of vehicle data in real time such as activation of the SRS airbag
    and failures in the SRS system components.
    This data belongs to the owner of the vehicle and access to
    they could be prevented from third parties who are not authorized
    legally or by the owner himself.
    However, these data are accessible to Honda, to dealers and to
    authorized garages, to employees, representatives and
    contractors exclusively for technical diagnosis, research and
    vehicle development.


    Recorders for maintenance diagnostics
    The vehicle is equipped with maintenance-related devices
    record information on the performance of the transmission and on
    driving conditions. The data can be used to facilitate the
    technicians in the operations of diagnosis, repair and maintenance of the
    vehicle. Access to such data could be prevented from third parties
    are not legally authorized or by the vehicle owner.
    However, these data are accessible to Honda, to dealers and to
    authorized garages, to employees, representatives and
    contractors exclusively for technical diagnosis, research and
    vehicle development.
     
  8. dtr20

    dtr20 Member

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    This is your car's black box like planes have. I do not know if it knows anything about the ECU tune. For example, if you were in a bad accident and you obliterated a parked car and said you were driving 5 MPH, the insurance company can pay to have the data from the box recovered for more information for the investigation. They would then find out you were doing 85 MPH.
     
  9. Andre80

    Andre80 Senior Member

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    no, to third parties you must allow it, it says that only you owner and honda and those who are part of it can see that data
     
  10. Vic_L

    Vic_L Senior Member

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    I am assuming this is the logger that master technicians/engineers can see...so when you bring your car in with a transmission issue, they see that you money shifted 3x times on these dates and times, etc. Not too sure about this, but I think it also records when and how many times the ECU was flashed/reflashed?
     
  11. Erin Tyres

    Erin Tyres Member

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    I wonder if there are any court cases where a car's data has been used as evidence. I would assume that today's cars record how the driver was using the throttle, brakes, and steering, as well as how the car skidded or when airbags deployed. After a serious crash, there would be a lot of pressure to present that data in court.

    I have never heard of Honda using recorded data to deny warranty claims, but I suppose that could happen someday.

    Any manufacturer who markets a self driving car should log -lots- of data, including video. That's the best way to learn from an accident. You might have seen that well known crash video where a self driving car collided with the side of a trailer truck. The car's systems did not see the truck due to the lighting at that particular time.
     
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  12. Vic_L

    Vic_L Senior Member

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    From what I've read, Honda do pull some sort of log when trying to see if something major is covered by the warranty.
    If my memory is still good, people have brought their Type-R's into the dealership regarding to transmission issues, such a gears grinding, etc.
    They have pulled the logs, and say warranty does not cover the repairs or warranty is void, because you shifted into 2nd, and redlined to 8000 RPM, causing wear/damage, on...Oct 10th of 2019.
     
  13. Erin Tyres

    Erin Tyres Member

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    Here is a research paper that used information from "event data recorders". The authors looked into 48 accidents that appeared to be "pedal error". For four of the accidents, EDR data was available, and it "confirmed that each of these drivers had their foot on the accelerator while they thought they were on the brake."

    https://www.sae.org/publications/technical-papers/content/2018-01-0493/
     
  14. OP
    OP
    gtman

    gtman Senior Member

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    ^ I wasn't posting about the black box recorders. We're all familiar with them. It's the Honda "service diagnostic recorders" and the blips about "verifying emissions law requirements" and "may be combined with other data for research purposes" that had me curious.
     
  15. Gruber

    Gruber Senior Member

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    My manual has an additional sentence added, which I just now found. It is totally supporting what i said in post #4. HondaLink is useful after all...

    And also:


    2oQlE_2Yp32gXDTR2y9tONYK0CM9MA7QTJewHRIX-DVwfPBdIE7_-AIRqqoeA?width=371&height=660&cropmode=none.jpg


    Santa always knows who's been naughty or nice...

     
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