CTR Future Mod List

jpmelfi

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2016
Threads
23
Messages
565
Reaction score
627
Location
New Jersey
Vehicle(s)
CTR #706, 07 S2k
Country flag
To add to what Brian mentioned. A few pros/cons and info for those not familiar:

E85 (Vegetable Race Gas)
+Pros
+Yes, it makes more power than typical premium pump gas. Generally, you can run more timing and boost safely.
+Burns cooler than gasoline (lower engine temps and intake temps)
+If not E85 capable from the factory - the car must be tuned. Tuners can make the car much stronger with it!
+Could be used with water/meth injection for even higher boost levels (See turbo efficiency below for downside)

-Cons
-More fuel has to be injected into the cylinder by an increase of 20%-30% resulting in worse fuel economy. Stock CTR fuel pump and injectors may or may not have enough flow to use E85. In time, we will know.
-E85 does not have lubricating properties like gasoline, fuel pump life shortened (I learned from experience). Injectors? Nothing has happened to them yet.
-Using a stock or small turbo and increasing boost takes these turbo's out of their efficiency. More boost = higher intake air temps
-Running high boost? Use meth/water and consider a larger intercooler. Both not necessary, but will help reduce heat soak and IAT.

Brian is on the right path. Although, the turbo will be an eventual choke point for more power, ultimately the engine is the limitation. Honda put R&D into the motor for enthusiasts to enjoy for a daily use and/or on occasional track days. We will find out what the limits are of the factory block and internals. Remember this is a mass produced engine. I did not read that Honda put forged internals (I could be wrong here), titanium etc into the motor for durability. That usually costs more money and therefore so does the product.

Lastly, about the stock boost pressure and lag. From what I have read from FK2R reviews and tests, 17 lbs of boost is what I have found. With higher summer temps and higher humidity in the US the ECU might increase the boost to keep power consistent. Increasing the boost pressure on the factory turbo shouldn't have more turbo lag.

I have checked CTR and competitors' compression ratios, bore and stroke, weight, stock boost pressure etc to see what type of power gains are reasonable. It was interesting.
The mono scroll turbocharger combines with cast aluminium pistons, aluminium VTEC rocker arms, forged conrods and a lightweight crankshaft to minimise the overall weight, size and rotational mass of the engine.

That is the info for the engine in the FK2 civic. Maybe they updated some intervals for the FK8... But it's probably the same internally
Sponsored

 

Vaders CTR

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2017
Threads
9
Messages
344
Reaction score
555
Location
New Albany, Ohio
Vehicle(s)
'22 CLA 45 AMG & '22 Ariel Atom 4
Vehicle Showcase
1
Country flag
The mono scroll turbocharger combines with cast aluminium pistons, aluminium VTEC rocker arms, forged conrods and a lightweight crankshaft to minimise the overall weight, size and rotational mass of the engine.

That is the info for the engine in the FK2 civic. Maybe they updated some intervals for the FK8... But it's probably the same internally
Very good info, thank you! You are probably right, FK2R and the FK8R are probably the same internally.
 

NorthernEX-T

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2016
Threads
70
Messages
3,570
Reaction score
3,601
Location
Canada, EH.
Vehicle(s)
17 Type R
Vehicle Showcase
1
Very good info, thank you! You are probably right, FK2R and the FK8R are probably the same internally.
It's just called the FK8 btw, the FK8 also is getting a shorter geared trans and a lighter flywheel to combat rev-hang, as for the engine specifically, it has a re-designed air-box, and a new intake manifold without the cooling fins as seen on the FK2.
 

17CivicTypeR_Brian

Aiming for 400whp out of the TypeR.
Joined
Oct 14, 2015
Threads
113
Messages
3,608
Reaction score
2,759
Location
York PA USA
Vehicle(s)
'17 Black CTR #4071, 16 MDX Tech
Country flag
To add to what Brian mentioned. A few pros/cons and info for those not familiar:

E85 (Vegetable Race Gas)
+Pros
+Yes, it makes more power than typical premium pump gas. Generally, you can run more timing and boost safely.
+Burns cooler than gasoline (lower engine temps and intake temps)
+If not E85 capable from the factory - the car must be tuned. Tuners can make the car much stronger with it!
+Could be used with water/meth injection for even higher boost levels (See turbo efficiency below for downside)

-Cons
-More fuel has to be injected into the cylinder by an increase of 20%-30% resulting in worse fuel economy. Stock CTR fuel pump and injectors may or may not have enough flow to use E85. In time, we will know.
-E85 does not have lubricating properties like gasoline, fuel pump life shortened (I learned from experience). Injectors? Nothing has happened to them yet.
-Using a stock or small turbo and increasing boost takes these turbo's out of their efficiency. More boost = higher intake air temps
-Running high boost? Use meth/water and consider a larger intercooler. Both not necessary, but will help reduce heat soak and IAT.

Brian is on the right path. Although, the turbo will be an eventual choke point for more power, ultimately the engine is the limitation. Honda put R&D into the motor for enthusiasts to enjoy for a daily use and/or on occasional track days. We will find out what the limits are of the factory block and internals. Remember this is a mass produced engine. I did not read that Honda put forged internals (I could be wrong here), titanium etc into the motor for durability. That usually costs more money and therefore so does the product.

Lastly, about the stock boost pressure and lag. From what I have read from FK2R reviews and tests, 17 lbs of boost is what I have found. With higher summer temps and higher humidity in the US the ECU might increase the boost to keep power consistent. Increasing the boost pressure on the factory turbo shouldn't have more turbo lag.

I have checked CTR and competitors' compression ratios, bore and stroke, weight, stock boost pressure etc to see what type of power gains are reasonable. It was interesting.
Some more Pros and Cons-

Pros-
+ in my area at least, it's a full $1 less than premium which puts it just under 2/3 the price of premium. This helps offset the significant decrease in fuel economy. When I evaluate my fuel consumption on a $/mi basis, it comes in 'slightly' cheaper to run E85. I'm NA so it's easy but boosted cars will probably struggle to find it cheaper
+ Measure fuel economy in Smiles per Gallon instead of Miles per Gallon
+ Smells fun!
+ Sleeper effect - retune to E85 with supporting mods (fuel pump, injectors as needed, spark plugs, etc) and gain perhaps 50-80hp without necessarily needing a different catback.

Cons-
- I've gone through 3 Fuel Level Sending sensors in less than 2 years
- it's not available everywhere so you better be able to retune automatically OR reflash while you're on a longer trip
- 190 miles on a tank...


I never looked at how the increased volume of fuel needed affects the compression ratio. It will have some measured impact but I'm guessing it's very insignificant right? I mean the volume of evaporated gas vs the same mass of liquid gas is probably what 150x greater? I'll have to go get a book and look it up now.
B
Sponsored

 


 


Top