Clutch slip with the Two Step Performance Stage 1 Map

[gylmar814]

Clocking in at almost 15k miles on my Si and never experienced no signs of clutch slipping until now, after reflashing the ecu with the TSP stage 1 Map. I use flashpro so my car automatically uses the 19/24.5 psi tune and I noticed yesterday while driving home from work in sport mode the rpm tach needle was fluctuating up and down at about 3k rpms in 5th and 6th gear just giving partial throttle. I'd say the boost load was approx 19-21psi when I was on throttle. If i gave it a little more throttle , you can see the slipping get worse and skip a couple hundred rpms. Obviously I know this doesnt help anything but wanted to see where my clutch stands.

Seems its showing early signs of clutch slipping. Bummer. I thought this stage 1 tune was clutch friendly and had a BBG set in a way that it wouldn't cause harm to the clutch. I would understand if I was putting the engine under stress and flooring it at a low rpm but given that I was a 3k rpms and partial throttle should this still be happening?

Side note: havent experienced this with the Hondata +9 map and no i dont race the car, dump the clutch, never launched the car, etc. Its my daily and I just use it to drive spirited around the city expressway, etc

The tune runs great by the way, at first I wasn't hitting the target boost pressure tsp claimed and honestly didnt feel no different than the hondata map but after noticing they disabled rev hang I decided to reflash the map but with rev hang enable and the car drives much better. Smooth and I easily see 25-26psi around 3rd and 4th gear.

So anyone else experience clutch slipping after flashing this tune?

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[WOPSiWOT]

Hitting 19-21 psi in 5th and 6th is a lot of load for those gears IMO. If you've been running +9 and now TSP for a while then my guess is that your clutch is on borrowed time and its not that surprising that it is starting to slip.

 

[ycehcky]

I agree with WOP, you should not be hitting that kind of boost levels in over drive gears(no matter what clutch you have in the car). I learned this in my modified TDI diesel Jetta haha. "Check out the diesel cloud...and the clutch slippage.." oops. Let it cool down and it should be fine, I am guessing the pressure plate does not have a strong enough pressure. Due to the light clutch pedal feel is why I think this.

 

[gylmar814]

Hitting 19-21 psi in 5th and 6th is a lot of load for those gears IMO. If you've been running +9 and now TSP for a while then my guess is that your clutch is on borrowed time and its not that surprising that it is starting to slip.

Well that's actually my concern, why is did boost managed to load that much boost in higher gears especially when I'm in part throttle (roughly 30-40% open throttle) when supposedly the TSP tune has Boost by gear set. I didnt have this problem with my hondata map because if I'm not mistaken, the car wouldn't even load that much boost if I was in the higher gears, especially when I'm not even on WOT.

 

[gylmar814]

I agree with WOP, you should not be hitting that kind of boost levels in over drive gears(no matter what clutch you have in the car). I learned this in my modified TDI diesel Jetta haha. "Check out the diesel cloud...and the clutch slippage.." oops. Let it cool down and it should be fine, I am guessing the pressure plate does not have a strong enough pressure. Due to the light clutch pedal feel is why I think this.

I did a write up on removing the clutch delay valve and installing the SS clutch line. Definitely helped with the light clutch pedal feel and makes the clutch feel more engaged.

 

[Deleted member]

Hitting 19-20 psi boost in 5th or 6th gear at highway speeds is a HUGE no no. Need to be much gentler on the gas when accelerating in those gears.

 

[dc2turbo]

Well that's actually my concern, why is did boost managed to load that much boost in higher gears especially when I'm in part throttle (roughly 30-40% open throttle) when supposedly the TSP tune has Boost by gear set. I didnt have this problem with my hondata map because if I'm not mistaken, the car wouldn't even load that much boost if I was in the higher gears, especially when I'm not even on WOT.

It's a drive by wire car. What you input in the gas paddle will not always give you what you input. At 30 to 40% it will usually always go to 100%throttle plate opening.

The stage 1 tune only has bbg set in first gear for traction

I believe you can set your bbg with the new quick bbg settings

 

[Jntsunami]

Clocking in at almost 15k miles on my Si and never experienced no signs of clutch slipping until now, after reflashing the ecu with the TSP stage 1 Map. I use flashpro so my car automatically uses the 19/24.5 psi tune and I noticed yesterday while driving home from work in sport mode the rpm tach needle was fluctuating up and down at about 3k rpms in 5th and 6th gear just giving partial throttle. I'd say the boost load was approx 19-21psi when I was on throttle. If i gave it a little more throttle , you can see the slipping get worse and skip a couple hundred rpms. Obviously I know this doesnt help anything but wanted to see where my clutch stands.

Seems its showing early signs of clutch slipping. Bummer. I thought this stage 1 tune was clutch friendly and had a BBG set in a way that it wouldn't cause harm to the clutch. I would understand if I was putting the engine under stress and flooring it at a low rpm but given that I was a 3k rpms and partial throttle should this still be happening?

Side note: havent experienced this with the Hondata +9 map and no i dont race the car, dump the clutch, never launched the car, etc. Its my daily and I just use it to drive spirited around the city expressway, etc

The tune runs great by the way, at first I was hitting the target boost pressure tsp claimed and honestly didnt feel no different than the hondata map but after noticing they disabled rev hang I decided to reflash the map but with rev hang enable and the car drives much better. Smooth and I easily see 25-26psi around 3rd and 4th gear.

So anyone else experience clutch slipping after flashing this tune?

I have 15,500 miles on my Si and have been running TSP Stage one tune for over a month now and have experienced clutch slip in all gears. I never had any issues before either when I was running KTuner 19.5/23. I just recently installed a Downpipe/Frontpipe and now I'm hitting 24 psi very easily and the clutchc slip is really bad! I'm going to reflash back to Ktuner map until I can get a new clutch installed. Unfortunately Honda put a clutch in these cars that can't handle all the boost.

 

[Si_Brian]

I suggest you contact @D-RobIMW and send him some datalogs. The most I see on partial throttle cruising at 75mph on 6th gear is 4psi going uphill to maintain the speed. On a flat surface, I'll see -5 to -2psi.

 

[jakabony]

I don't think it a matter of what your psi is, as opposed to the torque produced in that gear, at that RPM. The torque is what smokes your clutch. The stock tune creates a max of 20.3lbs of boost (Honda claimed), so 20lbs in 5th gear shouldn't cause the clutch to slip WITH A STOCK TUNE. However, with an aftermarket tune, the torque level in that gear at that RPM is significantly different, resulting in clutch slippage.

 

[thatlilwhiteone]

these clutch slip posts kinda have me worried but it seems like everyone that is having clutch slip is basically flooring it in 5th and 6th or they are modifying with down pipes etc. adding more power. Im just going to keep driving with the TSP tune I got enough money to fix it and the car should be worth enough after 3 years to get my money back so fuck it. The car is way more fun to drive now.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't think it a matter of what your psi is, as opposed to the torque produced in that gear, at that RPM. The torque is what smokes your clutch. The stock tune creates a max of 20.3lbs of boost (Honda claimed), so 20lbs in 5th gear shouldn't cause the clutch to slip WITH A STOCK TUNE. However, with an aftermarket tune, the torque level in that gear at that RPM is significantly different, resulting in clutch slippage.

My understanding is the stock tune limits the psi target based on the torque being produced. This is why people on a stock tune rarely see 20psi if ever- the engine hits the torque target long before 20psi.

These tunes will hit their psi targets regardless of the torque produced resulting in significantly more torque than stock.

 

[jakabony]

My understanding is the stock tune limits the psi target based on the torque being produced. This is why people on a stock tune rarely see 20psi if ever- the engine hits the torque target long before 20psi.

These tunes will hit their psi targets regardless of the torque produced resulting in significantly more torque than stock.

Yep I understand it that way as well. Why there is such an increase in torque with a base tune.

 

[dc2turbo]

I don't think it a matter of what your psi is, as opposed to the torque produced in that gear, at that RPM. The torque is what smokes your clutch. The stock tune creates a max of 20.3lbs of boost (Honda claimed), so 20lbs in 5th gear shouldn't cause the clutch to slip WITH A STOCK TUNE. However, with an aftermarket tune, the torque level in that gear at that RPM is significantly different, resulting in clutch slippage.

the factory ecu will hit 20psi at 5700 rpm... huge power difference if you were to hit 20psi at 3000-4000rpm

 

[jakabony]

the factory ecu will hit 20psi at 5700 rpm... huge power difference if you were to hit 20psi at 3000-4000rpm

Yeah and that is how the car should be launched. Keep the car in the 4-6k range when WOT.

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