Civic Type R at the track, goods and bads! Let's share our experience.

[Z06_Pilot]

Hi folks,

Have been reading this thread and others with great interest prior to getting my car. I have had my CTR for two days, so I am new to the track scene with this car. I am disturbed by the number of posts relating to the CTR overheating extremely easily in relatively low ambient temps for summer track days (4 or 5 laps in 80 degrees?), specifically, the heat soak issue. Is it bothersome that so many folks have to go to aftermarket intercoolers, wraps, and intakes in order to get this car through a 20 minute track session? Just wondering if this is normal for a turbocharged performance car(more heat generation than a normally aspirated engine), or is it viewed as a design flaw in the CTR?

To compare, I have been tracking my Z06 for years all over the place (Mid-Ohio, Watkins Glen, VIR, Road America, Nelson Ledges), with no transmission or oil cooler. I have run in ambient temps in the mid 90's, at full tilt, between 4 and 6 20 minute sessions per day, over two days. While my oil temps do get high of course, I never triggered any limp mode conditions or high temp CEL's, or detected any decrease in performance. All I ever had to deal with was track tires and brake pads, and popping the hood after each run. That's it. Pretty much no muss no fuss. Trust me, I'm not trolling here on the CTR, since I do own one, but I am just very surprised by this. The car is marketed and sold hard by Honda as a track car that you can use every day, and it's not like they wouldn't know what it takes to make a car perform on track. And it's obvious it's designed for that purpose given all the aero and cooling elements built into the body design, so it's not just marketing bs (any car with the extreme appearance of the CTR better have gotten it from a wind tunnel !)

I was hoping to eventually track the CTR a few times per year, but it sounds like a high maintenance (from a engine compartment mod standpoint) proposition. Plus, I purchased an 8 year/120k Honda Care warranty with the car and I didn't want to touch anything under the hood for fear of getting a warranty refusal in the future if I have a problem with anything under there. As we know, that can be a dealer by dealer type of thing.

Thanks

Jeff

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[O Haiii]

Hi folks,

Have been reading this thread and others with great interest prior to getting my car. I have had my CTR for two days, so I am new to the track scene with this car. I am disturbed by the number of posts relating to the CTR overheating extremely easily in relatively low ambient temps for summer track days (4 or 5 laps in 80 degrees?), specifically, the heat soak issue. Is it bothersome that so many folks have to go to aftermarket intercoolers, wraps, and intakes in order to get this car through a 20 minute track session? Just wondering if this is normal for a turbocharged performance car(more heat generation than a normally aspirated engine), or is it viewed as a design flaw in the CTR?

To compare, I have been tracking my Z06 for years all over the place (Mid-Ohio, Watkins Glen, VIR, Road America, Nelson Ledges), with no transmission or oil cooler. I have run in ambient temps in the mid 90's, at full tilt, between 4 and 6 20 minute sessions per day, over two days. While my oil temps do get high of course, I never triggered any limp mode conditions or high temp CEL's, or detected any decrease in performance. All I ever had to deal with was track tires and brake pads, and popping the hood after each run. That's it. Pretty much no muss no fuss. Trust me, I'm not trolling here on the CTR, since I do own one, but I am just very surprised by this. The car is marketed and sold hard by Honda as a track car that you can use every day, and it's not like they wouldn't know what it takes to make a car perform on track. And it's obvious it's designed for that purpose given all the aero and cooling elements built into the body design, so it's not just marketing bs (any car with the extreme appearance of the CTR better have gotten it from a wind tunnel !)

I was hoping to eventually track the CTR a few times per year, but it sounds like a high maintenance (from a engine compartment mod standpoint) proposition. Plus, I purchased an 8 year/120k Honda Care warranty with the car and I didn't want to touch anything under the hood for fear of getting a warranty refusal in the future if I have a problem with anything under there. As we know, that can be a dealer by dealer type of thing.

Thanks

Jeff

c6 or c7 z06? c6 would obviously fare better due to the engine being na. c7 still would do better than ctr because of their robust cooling system compared to that of the ctr. You have to understand that this is a 35,000 dollar civic based performance car. Even with the cooling issues it's a bargain of the century. You cannot compare a z06 to the ctr. With that said, it seems like for the most part you will need some combination of the following: intercooler, higher flowing front grill, oil cooler, and radiator. You won't need all 4, but maybe 2 or 3 max, depending on your worst case conditions. For the most part, intercooler and the grill seems to be good enough for most on here. Intercooler is super simple to install and so is the grill, so not much money and time is required to make this car decently track-ready in terms of cooling. Hope this helps.

 

[JLOracing]

c6 or c7 z06? c6 would obviously fare better due to the engine being na. c7 still would do better than ctr because of their robust cooling system compared to that of the ctr. You have to understand that this is a 35,000 dollar civic based performance car. Even with the cooling issues it's a bargain of the century. You cannot compare a z06 to the ctr. With that said, it seems like for the most part you will need some combination of the following: intercooler, higher flowing front grill, oil cooler, and radiator. You won't need all 4, but maybe 2 or 3 max, depending on your worst case conditions. For the most part, intercooler and the grill seems to be good enough for most on here. Intercooler is super simple to install and so is the grill, so not much money and time is required to make this car decently track-ready in terms of cooling. Hope this helps.

Radiator won't help much, lengthens the time to heat soak a little, but far from enough to warrant the cost, but doesnt lower temperature overall. Grill, turbo blanket, heat wrap on DP and FP, gold foil,on inlet pipe and coolant pipes, and intercooler to drop IAT are biggest simple mods to help. My songle biggest have been grill, turbo blanket, and hood louver panel

 

[rnh204]

I didn't buy the car to be an all out track car so I'm fine with some of the minor issues. For me, I got the car mainly as a daily that could handle the occasional track day. Your car might be totally fine - so my suggestion would be to take it on track out and see how it performs.

Almost every car that sees track duty will have some inherit weakness that needs to be addressed. The C6/C7 Z06 had early teething problems as well. Gt3 engines, Gt4 3rd gear problems etc etc...

I still love the car despite these issues.

 

[Z06_Pilot]

c6 or c7 z06? c6 would obviously fare better due to the engine being na. c7 still would do better than ctr because of their robust cooling system compared to that of the ctr. You have to understand that this is a 35,000 dollar civic based performance car. Even with the cooling issues it's a bargain of the century. You cannot compare a z06 to the ctr. With that said, it seems like for the most part you will need some combination of the following: intercooler, higher flowing front grill, oil cooler, and radiator. You won't need all 4, but maybe 2 or 3 max, depending on your worst case conditions. For the most part, intercooler and the grill seems to be good enough for most on here. Intercooler is super simple to install and so is the grill, so not much money and time is required to make this car decently track-ready in terms of cooling. Hope this helps.

Oh sorry I should have said, it's actually a 2004 C5 Z06. good info. thanks very much...

 

[Z06_Pilot]

I didn't buy the car to be an all out track car so I'm fine with some of the minor issues. For me, I got the car mainly as a daily that could handle the occasional track day. Your car might be totally fine - so my suggestion would be to take it on track out and see how it performs.

Almost every car that sees track duty will have some inherit weakness that needs to be addressed. The C6/C7 Z06 had early teething problems as well. Gt3 engines, Gt4 3rd gear problems etc etc...

I still love the car despite these issues.

trust me, I have 0 regrets buying this car. I traded in my beloved 2013 Mini hardtop JCW that was chipped with a fantastic exhaust. I knew within 10 minutes the CTR is a whole other animal-a spectacular ride. I'm certainly not a track rat, nowadays I do about 2 track weekends per year. I will definitely get it out on track in pure stock form and see what happens. My post was primarily looking for information.

thanks.

 

[yargk]

Your concerns are legitimate. My GT4 doesn't overheat in 110F at a fast pace on track (neither do a lot of cheaper cars, like miatas and Dodge SRT-4s). Also, although people report that turbo blanket/oil cooler/IC/grill help, others with those mods still overheat, so I don't consider the problem solved yet, which is annoying after the time that has passed!

As I understand it, Honda Manufacturing Alabama (HMA, the race team) is still working on cooling and said the world would know when they figure it out, implying that they hadn't yet.

Recent HMA news: " Unfortunately... before our weekend could really get started we are already loading up the car for the trip home. On the 5th lap of our 1st practice we lost the head gasket. We do not know the exact cause but it is most likely temperature related. We already have a replacement motor sourced but there is nothing more we can do until we get back to the shop. Thank you for following the team and we will have more updates soon."

It's still an open question to me...

 

[baldheadracing]

<shrug>It is a turbo and the exhaust manifold is part of the head. There is no magic bullet or simple heat management solution for any engine with an integrated exhaust manifold. The effective solutions, like JAS' TCR car or Boehm's Super Touring Si (Type R motor) or JLO's above, use a combination of a bunch of things. That's the nature of the beast. The least-expensive 'solution' remains to run an oil temperature gauge (because the coolant temperature lags way behind oil temperature in this engine), the heater, and adjust one's driving accordingly - autocross and time attack, not relatively long lapping sessions. YMWV, IMO.

 

[Z06_Pilot]

<shrug>It is a turbo and the exhaust manifold is part of the head. There is no magic bullet or simple heat management solution for any engine with an integrated exhaust manifold. The effective solutions, like JAS' TCR car or Boehm's Super Touring Si (Type R motor) or JLO's above, use a combination of a bunch of things. That's the nature of the beast. The least-expensive 'solution' remains to run an oil temperature gauge (because the coolant temperature lags way behind oil temperature in this engine), the heater, and adjust one's driving accordingly - autocross and time attack, not relatively long lapping sessions. YMWV, IMO.

sounds like I'll do a track weekend in April and one in October when the temps are more likely to be in the 60's or 70's. Will sacrifice some grip for sure, ;but it sounds like the best conditions to get what I can out of the car in stock form.

 

[exyia]

Hi folks,

Have been reading this thread and others with great interest prior to getting my car. I have had my CTR for two days, so I am new to the track scene with this car. I am disturbed by the number of posts relating to the CTR overheating extremely easily in relatively low ambient temps for summer track days (4 or 5 laps in 80 degrees?), specifically, the heat soak issue. Is it bothersome that so many folks have to go to aftermarket intercoolers, wraps, and intakes in order to get this car through a 20 minute track session? Just wondering if this is normal for a turbocharged performance car(more heat generation than a normally aspirated engine), or is it viewed as a design flaw in the CTR?

To compare, I have been tracking my Z06 for years all over the place (Mid-Ohio, Watkins Glen, VIR, Road America, Nelson Ledges)...[snip]

Let's be fair, you were spoiled by a good car

Corvette's are the exception to the rule - the rule being that no factory cars are actually "track ready". They are "track ready" for track newbies.

Corvette's and Porsche's are and have been the only real track-ready cars on the market for a while.

STi's do not have a stout motor for heavy track work
Evo's suffer from fuel starvation
Focus RS's overheat

So many of the track-focused owners of those cars end up either heavily building/prepping it for real track work, AND/or they usually give up and move on to a Corvette or Porsche. People used to talk all the time about STi's and Evo's beating Corvettes and Porsches for half the cost - but you go to a track day and you STILL see Corvettes and Porsches with veteran drivers today, yet the number of said STi's/Evo's is waning - those that are left are far from stock anymore.

The Type R is still a street car, just like every other car in it's segment. You just can't build a truly "track capable" car for sub 50k. You can build a very high performance car that most people can't drive to it's limits on the track, but real track cars that handle the abuse of a good driver requires proper solutions that cost money. Don't let the marketing fool you.

 

[lawl]

Let's be fair, you were spoiled by a good car

Corvette's are the exception to the rule - the rule being that no factory cars are actually "track ready". They are "track ready" for track newbies.

Corvette's and Porsche's are and have been the only real track-ready cars on the market for a while.

STi's do not have a stout motor for heavy track work
Evo's suffer from fuel starvation
Focus RS's overheat

So many of the track-focused owners of those cars end up either heavily building/prepping it for real track work, AND/or they usually give up and move on to a Corvette or Porsche. People used to talk all the time about STi's and Evo's beating Corvettes and Porsches for half the cost - but you go to a track day and you STILL see Corvettes and Porsches with veteran drivers today, yet the number of said STi's/Evo's is waning - those that are left are far from stock anymore.

The Type R is still a street car, just like every other car in it's segment. You just can't build a truly "track capable" car for sub 50k. You can build a very high performance car that most people can't drive to it's limits on the track, but real track cars that handle the abuse of a good driver requires proper solutions that cost money. Don't let the marketing fool you.

I wonder if the new ND miatas with the fixed trannies fit in the category you mentioned.

Also your apostrophes are killing me

 

[.grimace]

What transmission issues were the ND having? I have been thinking about getting one as I loved my NA and NB miatas.

 

[Gansan]

Let's be fair, you were spoiled by a good car

Corvette's are the exception to the rule - the rule being that no factory cars are actually "track ready". They are "track ready" for track newbies.

Corvette's and Porsche's are and have been the only real track-ready cars on the market for a while.

In that vein, I must give a shout-out to my old Integra Type R, which was 100% stock in engine cooling, and went through over 100 days at the track without a single overheating incident or mechanical failure. This includes the hottest days at Buttonwillow and Willow Springs, which were around 107 degrees. (Except when the idiot driver, me, did something stupid and broke something.) No Water Wetter or running the heater either.

 

[boosted180sx]

Let's be fair, you were spoiled by a good car

Corvette's are the exception to the rule - the rule being that no factory cars are actually "track ready". They are "track ready" for track newbies.

Corvette's and Porsche's are and have been the only real track-ready cars on the market for a while.

iirc didn't the c7 z06 have heat issues at the track? I remember people complaining about it when it first came out.

 

[lawl]

What transmission issues were the ND having? I have been thinking about getting one as I loved my NA and NB miatas.

earlier NDs saw many grenaded transmissions. https://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=610318

My friend's car had this happen, and they went to the dealership and got a new revised transmission. Friend was the second owner, so shouldn't be a problem if this happened to you.

Or just get a more recent one with the revised tranny and you don't have to worry about getting stranded anywhere..

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