Civic Si in GS

PedalFaster

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Collection of related anecdotal data:

We were gridded next to Lance Keeley (the guy who won) and Sam Karp at Nationals. On Wednesday, it was about 70 degrees when we ran. My codriver and I were busy spraying our front Bridgestones after our first runs, but Lance and Sam had blankets on their BFGs. Lance is a better driver than I am, but my first and second runs were each a half second faster than Lance's. On his third run, Lance sped up by 1.3 seconds and blew us all away. I'm sure some of that was because he just executed better, but he also attributed at least some of it to the BFGs coming up to temperature. That's with two drivers, but also over a long (1:45-2:00-long) heat.

Personally, I'm hesitant to run BFGs because I don't want to throw away runs in cool temperatures due the tires not working.
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farqt

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not sure if people are generally aware of this, but the pilot sport cup and rivals share basically the same compound. they are track, not autox specials.
 

RacingManiac

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Personally, I'm hesitant to run BFGs because I don't want to throw away runs in cool temperatures due the tires not working.
Being where you are at I'd probably have more concerns with low temp. In the balk of the autoX season for the tours you are unlikely to see that kind of cold weather where Rival S stop working. Granted I guess PittRace Match Tour is a thing now(so far 2 out of the 3 so far are in the 40s....). Nats Wednesday is not even cold really, but its nice having some tire temp with blanket. I do run pressure specifically for that first cold run since the car tend to be loose. GS car front temp comes up in 2 corners, but rears will lag, so less rear pressure on that first run helps.
 

das borgen

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probably last event of the year

 

farqt

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Anyone thought about running staggered? Re71r on the rear and rivals on the front? This is totally legal, and solves the difficulty of warming the rear up..
 


farqt

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I would suggest that then if people have thought about the logistics and thought about weight balance. I would even go as far as to suggest star specs on the rears, since they generally have a lower temperature range. After that I would probably think about weight balance, since you are now free to dump as much weight over the center of those front wheels as possible..
 

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Collection of related anecdotal data:

We were gridded next to Lance Keeley (the guy who won) and Sam Karp at Nationals. On Wednesday, it was about 70 degrees when we ran. My codriver and I were busy spraying our front Bridgestones after our first runs, but Lance and Sam had blankets on their BFGs. Lance is a better driver than I am, but my first and second runs were each a half second faster than Lance's. On his third run, Lance sped up by 1.3 seconds and blew us all away. I'm sure some of that was because he just executed better, but he also attributed at least some of it to the BFGs coming up to temperature. That's with two drivers, but also over a long (1:45-2:00-long) heat.

Personally, I'm hesitant to run BFGs because I don't want to throw away runs in cool temperatures due the tires not working.
So that third run. As I think I told briefly before in the thread - but things were aligned better for Lance on that last run. I will go into more detail....

Firstly, I made the big mistake of having Lance as the first driver. Lance was trying not to take Nationals that seriously and he honestly thought he had zero chance of even being on the podium. In fact, he thought I might have even been the quicker of the two with the results I was getting at locals through the later part of the year. I always choke at National events - especially Nationals itself, so I knew that was not going to be the case! Lance for sure has a lot of ice flowing through is veins compared to me! But anyway - he was okay being first out, so we decided to have him as #12 and me as #112.

Run number one on Rivals in cooler/cold conditions is pretty much garbage. You won't have grip for a while. Since its usually a "feeling out the course" run anyway, I have accepted it. Lance gets it as well.

So, Wednesday at Nationals....
Before runs: Start with my typical dry set-up. 32psi up front, 45psi in the rear. Bar on 2/2.

Run 1A: Lance was the third car on course (I think) and ran a 64.9. About the 5th fastest time of first drivers going out on cold tires. Comes back saying that the car was crap the first half of the run and started to get pushy towards the last part of the course. Keep in mind, this was his first run ever in the dry in the car. Or any Si for that matter!

Between 1A/1B: Blankets on, keep pressures the same as we started.

Run 1B: I go out and run a 65.3 pf'ing it through most of the course. Fairly typical, my first look at a course is usually a feeler anyway. I think the cars balance is fine (perhaps a little pushy).

Between 1B/2A: Lance decides not to put blankets on the rear and to also add a couple of pounds of pressure in the rear. I tried to advise him that I did not think these changes would work. I felt the push problem was with the front of the car and we should lower the front pressures a bit. But it was his run next, so I let him do what he wanted. Blankets on the front only, 32psi up front, 47psi in the rear.

Run 2A: Lance runs a 64.2. Finds 7-tenths and enough to get him up back towards the top. Others were in the 63's, but were slower on day 1. But he did what he needed to do for the whole event. He reported he had the rear end slide in the first sweeper and an element after that. He felt he lost a lot of time there and would have otherwise been well into the 63's. Also reported the same push he got towards the end of his first run.

Between 2A/2B: Blankets back on all four. But I decide to try the 47psi in the rear. Kept the fronts at 32.

Run 2B: I run a 64.5. So I am in Lance's neighborhood now. Felt like a decent run, still tentative in a few places. I did feel the push still but it was not bad.

Between 2B/3A: Blankets on all four. We decide to lower the front pressures down to 30psi. Keep the rears at 47psi. Its hammer time.

Run 3A: Lance finds the g-spot and runs his 63.0. I knew it was going to be a 63, but was fairly amazed that it was a .0. He said the car worked perfectly. He had the heat in all four tires and the front pressure change did what he wanted it to do. He still said he made some mistakes and felt a mid-high 62 was out there. What an a**hole!

Between 3A/3B: Who cares, stop reading. But if you want, fine.... Its all still a little blurry, but all I remember is watching some of the fast single/first-drivers like Jen W, Brad M, Andy T, Dan C and Brian A that were in the hunt either slowing down or not going fast enough to get into the podiums kitchen. Another thing I remember is someone asking if I wanted to change anything for my last run. I would have needed a a high 63 to get into the top 5. Anything beyond that was out of reach, so I just kept the car the same as Lance had.

Run 3B: My head was not in the right place. I was thinking more of Lance than what I needed to do. In fact one time on course I even looked the other way to see if Ken T (two cars behind me) had hit a cone! I over-drove some tight parts of the course which added some distance. And then went into the final slalom too fast and had to tap the brake in the middle. I slowed down, no help. Thats rare for me on 3-run days with Rivals!

After runs: I speed my way back to grid as the only drivers who had a chance of getting Lance were on course behind me - Ken and Elias R. I wanted to be with Lance as they finished. Both slowed down so unless Kaustav pulled a miracle tour, we were kinda of in mini-celebration mode.

So thats that.

As for Bridgestones.... I bought a set of 18" wheels and Bridgestones before Nationals. I did not bring them as I had not tested them and did not want them to be an option. I opted for the 255/40-18 size, but shaved to 4/32's (I always found shaved Bridgestones are more consistent for me). I wanted this tire and size specifically for local events I planned on doing after Nationals. 4 of the 5 locals I planned for were at a site that I typically run out of gear at on the 255/40-17's. And since its post-Nationals - it would be cold in the midwest....

First event I go to it is 85-90 degrees and a tighter course than we normally run on. Event 2 is the next day - so same temps but a more open course. I felt the tire size was perfect for that second day - but I had to hot-lap the car to get all 7 of my runs in during about an 60-90min time frame. Bridgestones were hating me that day! And I did not like them. The Rivals felt better or maybe thats what I was used to.

Last week we had an event that was cooler temps (about 55 degrees), but on a site that typically does not test gearing - event with shorter 17" tires. The tire felt better - but Lance and I were co-driving. Using blankets even with the Bridgestones. We both felt that our best runs were our last runs but the times did not reflect that. I have noticed that with Bridgestones before. The last run is often a throw-away. Either too much heat, too much OPR, etc. We both still did very well and felt in these conditions that Bridgestones were the correct tire. We just wish we were on a different size.

We will hopefully be testing the 255/40-18 Bridgestone vs a set of 255/40-17 Bridgestones at the next (last) two events of the year. Thats the plan. Back at the event site that we typically notice has faster top speeds. Lance's theory is that even on fast courses the 17" size is better for digs and overall handling (since the car is a half-inch lower to the ground). We shall see.
 
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PedalFaster

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Are you guys planning to both stay in GS next year, or is 2019 too far out to be sure?

I would suggest that then if people have thought about the logistics and thought about weight balance. I would even go as far as to suggest star specs on the rears, since they generally have a lower temperature range. After that I would probably think about weight balance, since you are now free to dump as much weight over the center of those front wheels as possible..
Not sure I follow the weight comment -- there's nothing you can do in Street to adjust the weight distribution of a car other than switch to a lighter-weight exhaust. And if you were allowed to move weight around, you'd want to take weight off of the front wheels, not add more on an already front-heavy car.

Also, I'd be careful running Dunlops in back with BFGs or Bridgestones in front. The car's pretty well balanced in transition, so deliberately running a less grippy tire in back could make it pretty hairy.
 

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I think its cool that Lance won by plainly being faster for both days. Hasn't been the case in GS since Mark left the class. Taking nothing away from Pallotta and Rowse but its pretty cool how Lance did it.
 


Gefiltefish

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Are you guys planning to both stay in GS next year, or is 2019 too far out to be sure?
That is the plan right now. Lance should be driving with me at most National level events we go to. Pro's, "attached Tours" (I typically only go to Tours attached to a Pro weekend like Spring Nats... or maybe Tours really close-by) and Nationals. Other than an exhaust, the car will pretty much go unchanged. We may play with alignment and bar settings as always.

There were some thoughts of getting a second car (I was going to trade my Fit in for an Si coupe) to prep for STH - but I think I am off that idea now. It would have been a light-build and I don't want to half-a** it. I do think the car could do very well in STH though.

I think its cool that Lance won by plainly being faster for both days. Hasn't been the case in GS since Mark left the class. Taking nothing away from Pallotta and Rowse but its pretty cool how Lance did it.
Yes, having the fast dry time was great. A lot of well-seasoned autocrossers were claiming that 2018 will be "The Year Of The Asterisk". Who had rain tires. Who ran in the dark. Who attended the Sawyer event, etc. I personally believe Sawyer did not effect the results much (if at all), but the limited daylight and (especially) rain certainly played a factor. So I was very happy the car was competitive in the dry. I hope that makes others get Si's to run. GS's attendance numbers are always up/down and I have heard several FoST & GTi owners are leaving the class next year. Hopefully new Si's fill some of those spots.
 

RacingManiac

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Wet time was fast too, considering he ran 1st driver slot, I am pretty miffed with my performance both day but 2nd day was a mistake but first day was just not fast enough...and both of our cars have had the right tires...
 

das borgen

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I hope that makes others get Si's to run. GS's attendance numbers are always up/down and I have heard several FoST & GTi owners are leaving the class next year. Hopefully new Si's fill some of those spots.
that's sad. I think the parity is pretty good between those 3 cars
 

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What light weight wheels do you guys recommend? I was looking at RPF1's but I am unsure of the dimensions that would be legal for GS.
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