Civic si has more potential than type r( aftermarket wise).

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[ONEPNT5.Si]

The Si on Type R power levels probably wouldn't make it 25k miles. Meanwhile, a stock R will go 250k.

I would advise that you do some more research on this topic before continuing the discussion.

 

[ONEPNT5.Si]

Havent even been here 3 months and seen a handful of Si that are already toast on these forums alone.

Yeah, due to abuse and installing mods without tuning for them, or installing mods that people are told to stay away from installing on this platform.

 

[Syntek]

Ill take the people who built the cars word for it- https://www.thedrive.com/sheetmetal/11150/honda-explains-why-the-2017-civic-si-has-only-205-hp

You mean when you modify or tune a motor outside of it's intended factory spec, it's lifespan and reliability diminishes?

Shit man, news to me, good to know!

 

[davemarco]

Yeah, but not when you're talking about physical limits of the car.. Honda is pushing the safety over head threshold for just about every component of the engine on the CTR. Its basically that safety threshold that the aftermarket dips into and sometimes goes over. That's the simple fact of things. Of course there is more overhead on a base version vs the SI.. same for SI vs CTR.

Take the Mercedes-AMG M133 4 banger making something like 400+HP with 30+PSI of boost from the factory. Your safety overhead threshold probably barely accounts for warranty duration... a person would be a fool trying to milk more from that. Or at the very least, no surprise when she blows.

They're actually not. Not even close. I understand the logic behind your assumption here, but it's simply not accurate.

 

[Syntek]

Youd be suprised to see how many people here think that a heavily modified Si will last as long as a stock R. Maybe you should tell your friends here.

I think you're missing the point here. It's safe to assume that any modification done to any motor has a possibility to lower it's "life span". The same logic could be applied to the R's motor if you "heavily modify" it like the 1.5L.

On the flip side, I think it's possible to keep the longevity of an engine if you're not constantly beating on it on a daily basis regardless if it's modified or not.

 

[ONEPNT5.Si]

Ill take the people who built the cars word for it- https://www.thedrive.com/sheetmetal/11150/honda-explains-why-the-2017-civic-si-has-only-205-hp

I'm not trying to sound like an ass, so I hope you're not taking it that way. But I've read that article before. You're free to take away from that whatever you want, but you should also consider the real world data. There are plenty of Si's that are FBO, tuned on ethanol, and some running upgraded turbos that are purring along just fine. It comes down to the cars being properly tuned for the installed modifications, and whether or not you respect the car. You can still have plenty of fun without beating a car to death, which leads me back to the point that almost all engine failures we have seen on this forum were due to abuse or the modifications being installed without a proper tune.

I think you're missing the point here. It's safe to assume that any modification done to any motor has a possibility to lower it's "life span". The same logic could be applied to the R's motor if you "heavily modify" it like the 1.5L.

On the flip side, I think it's possible to keep the longevity of an engine if you're not constantly beating on it on a daily basis regardless if it's modified or not.

This.

 

[H3llsp4wn707]

I think you're missing the point here. It's safe to assume that any modification done to any motor has a possibility to lower it's "life span". The same logic could be applied to the R's motor if you "heavily modify" it like the 1.5L.

On the flip side, I think it's possible to keep the longevity of an engine if you're not constantly beating on it on a daily basis regardless if it's modified or not.

I agree with you 100%.

 

[Design]

There is some truth to the aftermarket potential. A stock Si has more to gain, mod for mod, than a comparatively equipped Type R. Part of that is because Honda deliberately engineered more overhead into the Si's 1.5T - most notably with fueling. Development on the CTR has not been as aggressive because of the ECU encryption, integrated manifold, fuel system, etc. All comparatively more expensive to mod (though certainly capable) than the widely sourced 1.5T.

Speaking of which, these little motors can definitely take some abuse when properly tuned. I wouldn't expect a ton of problem-free miles. But depending on how it's driven & cared for, it's possible to get quite a few miles from a small displacement TCDI motor. All that said, it's still a fool's errand to think you can get CTR levels of performance from the Si without spending a lot more than what a stock Type R costs at MSRP.

I've posted this before, but here's a teardown of a bone stock Si 1.5T after being run for 25K at 400 WHP.

 

[saiko21]

Type R engine is also available as a crate engine. I don't understand why the development is less for that engine.

 

[fiend busa]

I don't think that's true

I believe Dream Automotive has a 550hp/whp (can't remember) Type R with an upgraded turbo and some internal components (it's on there Instagram)

Simple tune on the Type R gets it to 350ish whp on 93 and a bit more with bolt ons

To get 350whp on the Si you need clutch, all bolt ons, upgraded turbo and ethanol lol

And no bias here - i've owned the 10th gen Si

 

[davemarco]

Type R engine is also available as a crate engine. I don't understand why the development is less for that engine.

Development isn't less. I'm not sure where you're getting this idea. The 1.5T predated the release of the 2.0T in the U.S. by a few years. Plus, the R's ECU started off encrypted. These things took time to work their course.

Today, there are a full array of bolt ons available for the R, custom tuning, port injection, and a full array of engine internal upgrades. Upgraded turbo's are also being developed. There are 40 gazillion different exhausts available. Carbon fiber everything.

What more are you looking for here?

 

[turbociv910]

No its not, not even close. Ferrari only makes 8000 cars a year- thats the reason why. Who is going to R and D parts for a f12 when only 300 a year are made? Cmon man.

a lot of those parts are from people who simply just want it and pay a company to make them.. the up front cost are not r and d per say, but just billable hours to the customer

 

[Syntek]

a lot of those parts are from people who simply just want it and pay a company to make them.. the up front cost are not r and d per say, but just billable hours to the customer

Also depends on the company. Some companies are willing to borrow the car and test fit products for them. The trade off is the customer gets free parts while the company has a fully developed product to mass produce and sell. Which of course, the customer will promote said product since they got it for free and thats basically free marketing for the Company.

 

[kingbudd]

No its not, not even close. Ferrari only makes 8000 cars a year- thats the reason why. Who is going to R and D parts for a f12 when only 300 a year are made? Cmon man.

As someone that has owned a 360 Spider and Gallardo, Novitec and Fabspeed say otherwise. There is a huge market for upgrades to exotics, and its not just sound, they R & D heavily on performance.

Here is a clip of the Novitec on an F12. I just drove an 812 Superfast with Novitec exhaust last week, there is a large market for performance upgrades in the exotic market.

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