Battery issues

[HarlowQuinn]

I've seen a lot of people having problems with their batteries. My car had to be jumped for the second time today. The first time I drove it one day and then the next day my car wouldn't start and roadside assistance had to come out to jump it. The second time was today and here is where my question is, does it make sense that playing the radio for literally five minutes in accessory mode should cause the car to have to be jumped after just being driven? Luckily I was at the dealership, waiting in line listening to my radio with the car in accessory mode, when I went to start my car all my warning lights for ABS and brakes came on and the car would turn over but not start, then everything went dead. If this happened twice shouldn't the dealership have a checked my battery and considered a replacement already? They just told me don't play the radio at all with the car not running and didn't even consider replacement. My car is already in the process of a possible buy back for a whole list of reasons but does that sound normal for dealership behavior as well as for the car to drain the battery that quickly?

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[Billy4202]

Not normal. I listen to music in my car at work during lunch for 30-35 mins a few times a week on accessory mode, never had issues starting later in the afternoon.

However, my Fusion had that issue. Battery was replaced under warranty b/c it had dead cells. It's possible Honda's cheaping out on OEM batteries.

 

[crimson-civic]

I would say something definately seems off about the OEM battery.

I've had my Civic for about 20 months, and my car battery just died on Labor Day.
The battery was probably still under warranty, but the hassle of getting a jump start and the time involved with taking it to the dealership the following business day was too much of a headache to deal with. It wasn't worth it for a warranty claim on a $150-ish battery.

Instead, I just called AAA and had them deliver and install a new battery in 30 min.

 

[jeffNB]

It's the foolish Group 51 battery that Honda uses. Thankfully, the Canadian Civics have been fitted with something bigger, maybe a Group 24.

 

[Hondaman_MI]

I left my interior lights on overnight. Was worried I'd have battery problems. No issues so far thankfully.

 

[SCOPESYS]

I left my interior lights on overnight. Was worried I'd have battery problems. No issues so far thankfully.

Got to LOVE "LED" light !!
( I am assuming the internal lights are LED ? If not, in 2018 they sure should be !!)

 

[SCOPESYS]

It's the foolish Group 51 battery that Honda uses. Thankfully, the Canadian Civics have been fitted with something bigger, maybe a Group 24.

The Group 24 battery is approx twice the volume of the Group 51, and about twice the Reserve capacity.

Group 24 260 x 173 x 225 mm = 0.1 square Meters with 135 Minutes Reserve
Group 51 238 x 129 x 223 mm = 0.06 square meters with 65 Minute Reserve

Group 24 is about twice weight of the 51 -- so probably #1 reason to use in USA Market.

So with Infotainment unit running, at say 1/4 volume, you probably will flatten the smaller Group 51 battery is a couple of hours.

Looking at the above, those small Lithium Emergency Starter Battery devices, look highly desirable !!
Many to chose from, at all different prices !!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/68800mAh-1...attery-Charger-Engine-Booster-LI/153041421311

====> 5 minutes later ====> https://www.ebay.com/itm/68800mAh-1...attery-Charger-Engine-Booster-LI/153041421311

or call Honda Assist
===> 2 hours later ====>
https://www.ebay.com/itm/68800mAh-1...attery-Charger-Engine-Booster-LI/153041421311

 

[HarlowQuinn]

The Group 24 battery is approx twice the volume of the Group 51, and about twice the Reserve capacity.

Group 24 260 x 173 x 225 mm = 0.1 square Meters with 135 Minutes Reserve
Group 51 238 x 129 x 223 mm = 0.06 square meters with 65 Minute Reserve

Group 24 is about twice weight of the 51 -- so probably #1 reason to use in USA Market.

So with Infotainment unit running, at say 1/4 volume, you probably will flatten the smaller Group 51 battery is a couple of hours.

Looking at the above, those small Lithium Emergency Starter Battery devices, look highly desirable !!
Many to chose from, at all different prices !!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/68800mAh-1...attery-Charger-Engine-Booster-LI/153041421311

====> 5 minutes later ====>

or call Honda Assist
===> 2 hours later ====>

They actually use something like that at the dealership to start my car, then told me just to "driving around a bit to charge the battery". I asked them to check the battery and make sure it was OK but they didn't in spite of the fact that I mentioned that roadside assistance had to jump my car before thankfully this happened while the car was just literally sitting overnight in my driveway, with no lights on or anything. I've had more cars in my life that I can count and routinely I would spend at least 30 to 45 minutes every day sitting in my car listening to music, I certainly didn't expect listening to one song on my stereo while sitting in my car after having driven it 20 minutes would completely drain my battery to the point where even the interior lights wouldn't come on.

 

[HarlowQuinn]

I honestly have never had a car where I now have to cross my fingers every time I start it.

 

[SCOPESYS]

They actually use something like that at the dealership to start my car, then told me just to "driving around a bit to charge the battery". I asked them to check the battery and make sure it was OK but they didn't in spite of the fact that I mentioned that roadside assistance had to jump my car before thankfully this happened while the car was just literally sitting overnight in my driveway, with no lights on or anything. I've had more cars in my life that I can count and routinely I would spend at least 30 to 45 minutes every day sitting in my car listening to music, I certainly didn't expect listening to one song on my stereo while sitting in my car after having driven it 20 minutes would completely drain my battery to the point where even the interior lights wouldn't come on.

A characteristic of the Non-Deep Discharge Batteries,( and especially "Cheaper - lower quality "car" Batteries), is that they really do not like being highly discharged. They never fully recover, and each time they are deep discharged, their ability to be charged back up to full capacity diminishes.
That's why there are differently designed Deep Discharge batteries, but they are more expensive. (Typically use for Marine Applications).

Another factor is that these Android Head Units consume a lot more power than your older AM/FM/Cassette players fitted in older cars.
So that, with the smaller, cheaper, lower AH capacity batteries fitted to the USA Honda Civics, it is not surprising that they discharge so quickly when the engine is not running, and you are running the Infotainment system.

This is evident when I consider at the modern Android head unit I recently put into my older 87 Maxima. I use to be able to play the FM radio in the car for HOURS without the engine running .. I have lost count of how many times I have killed the battery, playing about with the Android Unit in the garage, seeing how many APPS I can run on it !!!. I now tend to just put the battery charger onto the car whenever I am going to spend any significant time playing with it in the garage.

 

[jeffNB]

Here is a photo of a non-Group 51 battery in my Canadian Civic.

 

[HarlowQuinn]

The terrible thing is the fact that my battery died twice on me, once I had to call roadside assistance and the second time it actually died right online at the dealership. They absolutely refuse to replace the battery and less the machine that they hook it up to shows a problem. They made me sit there for over an hour while they ran tests and explain to me even if the battery died on me 50 times they would not replace the battery under warranty unless it failed the test they say is part of the procedure that is mandatory that it fail to be replaced. In other words my car will be deemed a lemon before they will replace the battery. Unbelievable.

 

[Gruber]

These batteries have about 65 minutes reserve capacity. (Some aftermarket Group 51 batteries have more, for example 85 minutes)
65 minutes means less than 30 Ah capacity. Most cars I had before would have typically 42-48 Ah batteries. But my 2009 CR-V has exactly the same 51R battery as my civicx.

65 minutes reserve means it can provide 25 A current for over one hour. This means it can run 300 W of device power over this time. It doesn't seem like the head unit playing radio takes that much power. So it certainly should not discharge the battery in 15 minutes.

I didn't experience any problems with batteries either in the CR-V or the civic.

Maybe the dealership should masure the current the battery draws when playing radio in the accessory mode, and check whether it is being fully charged by the car. If the tests show the battery is good, it seems impossible that it should die from playing radio for much less than one hour.

 

[marauderguy]

Here is a photo of a non-Group 51 battery in my Canadian Civic.

Group 35. Replacement batteries have approx 640 CCA and 95 min reserve capacity. Almost 50% more than a 51r.

 

[HarlowQuinn]

These batteries have about 65 minutes reserve capacity. (Some aftermarket Group 51 batteries have more, for example 85 minutes)
65 minutes means less than 30 Ah capacity. Most cars I had before would have typically 42-48 Ah batteries. But my 2009 CR-V has exactly the same 51R battery as my civicx.

65 minutes reserve means it can provide 25 A current for over one hour. This means it can run 300 W of device power over this time. It doesn't seem like the head unit playing radio takes that much power. So it certainly should not discharge the battery in 15 minutes.

I didn't experience any problems with batteries either in the CR-V or the civic.

Maybe the dealership should masure the current the battery draws when playing radio in the accessory mode, and check whether it is being fully charged by the car. If the tests show the battery is good, it seems impossible that it should die from playing radio for much less than one hour.

It seems they don't even want to run these tests and Honda, the only advice that they give is that I should have the car towed in the next time the battery dies. The battery actually died while I was waiting in line at service! They've tested my battery two times and claim that the battery is passing all of their tests and told me if it passes the test even if the battery dies 50 times they will not replace it.

Even when I don't drive my car for two days it doesn't sound like it starts up easily, it almost sounds like it's laboring to get that first turn over. If I don't drive my car for a week or more it's a guarantee that the battery will be dead. Up until now I have had to have my battery jumped twice by on the road service, once by the dealership while I was there, and the car is become so unreliable that I purchased a mini battery charger and I've had to use that pretty much every time the car has sat for more than four days. So the car now has had to be jumped 6 times in less than 1000 miles. That just doesn't seem right I've never had a car where I have to cross my fingers as to whether or not it's going to start. When the battery is dead it is so dead that I have to use the latch behind the rear seat to open the trunk because it doesn't even have enough power to do that and when I press the start button nothing happens (not even clicks), the interior lights don't even come on.

One strange thing though that I did notice was this last time when I went in my car with the door opened, the map lights would not go on but the dome light was flickering and that was the only sign of power inside the car.

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