Audio and Connectivity Overview for 2016 Honda Civic Sedan

[Slickone]

The D is CD stands for Digital. Just saying.

Yes I know. But people call MP3s and such digital, vs. a physical CD. I didn't make up those naming conventions.

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[takemorepills]

Jeez Honda wakes up from a decades long slump and drops this turd into an otherwise awesome car.

 

[Slickone]

In case you haven't heard, whether we like it or not, CDs are going the way of the cassette tape.

We have close to 700 CDs and haven't used one in a car in at least five years. Bought a $800 BMW CD changer for my 2009 135i. Used it half a dozen times. Put rips, transcoded is better for size, on a 64GB USB flash drive, <$20 from The Big River. Plug the stick in the car. You can drive for literally months and not hear the same music twice. You also don't have to worry about damage or loss of the CDs or how often you have to swap them out. I understand the audio quality argument, but, seriously, is the car really a critical listening environment, starting as it does with >70dbA of ambient noise?

Regardless of what you do, a lot of people still have, buy, and play CD's, so why couldn't Honda spend the extra $10 on a CD player for each car? Or *at least* make it an option (and charge more for it). I'd pay more for one, instead of fooling with an aftermarket one.

"The Lowly CD Still A Big Part Of The Music Business"
http://www.forbes.com/sites/bobbyow...ly-cd-still-a-big-part-of-the-music-business/

In summary, CD's may be going away, but are far from gone. Using your argument, Honda should have eliminated gasoline engines as well.

 

[hondo]

It's odd to complain about the tech in the car getting outdated in a few years while at the same time wanting already outdated tech in it. I could understand if the complaint was that the tech isn't easily up-gradable by the end user. That way buyers could slide in the system that best fits their needs and upgrade as they see fit. But the truth is most people don't go aftermarket.

Honda has forced us into doing what THEY want us to do.

I doubt they care to force anything onto anyone. They want to make money and to compete you have to offer more features. Maybe it doesn't appeal to you, but it does to most buyers. They aren't designing cars around just one person. I'm sure there are other features packaged into higher trims that some people don't want. The alternative is to go a la carte.

 

[takemorepills]

It's odd to complain about the tech in the car getting outdated in a few years while at the same time wanting already outdated tech in it. I could understand if the complaint was that the tech isn't easily up-gradable by the end user. That way buyers could slide in the system that best fits their needs and upgrade as they see fit. But the truth is most people don't go aftermarket.

Try reconsidering your basis: A person who would prefer their vehicle separated from tech. I don't care about the "tech" of the stereo. It would be nice if it sounds great! But that only simply takes good speakers and power with a decent, basic HU.

To be clear, I myself would absolutely not complain about this issue IF the CivicX had a replaceable radio. It DOES NOT. Honda did not use a standard double DIN setup (even though the new Pilot appears to) and they committed the worst sin possible that any automaker could do to the HU...they migrated some of the HVAC to the HU. I don't think people get the gravity of this. If you don't like it, you can't just simply change it!

I would be fine buying a CivicX with the Android HU and removing it right away, if that was possible. As it is, the CivicX is a great deal, and removing what looks like a fancy HU wouldn't bother me one bit. But it is not that simple.

I doubt they care to force anything onto anyone. They want to make money and to compete you have to offer more features. Maybe it doesn't appeal to you, but it does to most buyers. They aren't designing cars around just one person. I'm sure there are other features packaged into higher trims that some people don't want. The alternative is to go a la carte.

Quantify this. I used to work in the automotive industry. I got my start in the mid 90's at a Honda dealer as a lot attendant. I have driven thousands of other people's cars to this day. The most shocking thing? Almost everyone's radio is turned off or if it is on AM talk or soft FM. Hardly anybody is ever actively wanting there radio to be more than it is. It is amazing how many 10-20 year old cars still have their stock radio and look like they never have even seen much CD player use (lack of CDs in car or radio). This is the mentality of the majority of people. Very few cars I have been in have had the stock radio modified. As a %, it is very small overall, but still big enough to keep aftermarket people in business. I also used to have my own business of car stereo and alarm.
So why do manufacturers drop Hyundais and Kias with Windows based HU's? Possibly because the manufacturers and product developers don't have much else to innovate on?? Why has it taken Honda so long to get here?? Because it is marketing perception. They are probably a little anxious that they are one of the tech holdouts.

Just like a few of us may be a "vocal minority objecting" on this issue, I really truly believe those of you that are advocates on this are also the other "vocal minority". As website enthusiasts, we split the line on either side. The vast majority of Honda customers are not enthusiasts. They will be lining the Honda dealers service bays demanding that their "radio" function correctly. Probably more than one person will be like "where the hell is the CD player" or "my local Car Toys says they can't remove this POS radio" and probably most people will be genuinely upset that the audio cuts out every now and then and that they have been advised to "pull fuses" or "pull the battery cable" on their brand new vehicle. Their brand new HONDA, you know the car brand that has a reputation for great reliability? Most customers won't want to hear what the radio CAN DO when it's working or that it is "very advanced". They will just want their "radio" to, simply, work.

I will agree that more people than ever are not averse to connecting their smartphone to the car, but the moment that gives people trouble and causes huge glitches, most people are not gonna be all that willing to give Honda a "pass". Come on, the audio shuts off completely? You have to be aware what version phone you have?? It's a car radio for f's sake!

Now before anckentucky calls me out for passive aggression or micro aggression, let me apologize right now if I come of way overboard and aggressive about this.

This is a frustrating development even at my work where we deal with this forced obsolescence every day. We spend more time chasing firmware updates and software incompatibility issues than we spend on keeping things running smoothly. Our world used to be hard-wired and reliable. Now our upper bosses with iPhones have deemed that we need to invest more in "tech". It turns out to be a huge waste and everyone except the bosses are mad. Everyone being our end users and our techs. (our bosses are gov't bureaucrats BTW)

 

[heath3990]

Obviously you haven't read up on how much of a steaming pile of crap Honda's infotainment systems are? http://www.civicx.com/threads/so-many-options-for-phone-integration-so-little-time.715/

Honda has forced us into doing what THEY want us to do. Even the car mags are beginning to poo-poo they way Honda is going about this.

I just can't get my head around people, like yourself (this is no offense intended) who want to have trendy, quickly outdated tech baked into their car. A car that could likely serve you well for 20-30 years, or at the very least a car whose car payments will outlive the validity of your tech. Even claiming you can run updates on the system to keep up...could you? Has NO ONE ever seen obsolete, outdated hardware? There's mountains of desktops, laptops, tablets, smartphones waiting to be recycled because they are not "quad core" or are lacking memory, drive space, processor speed or have just plain crapped out and can't keep up with software!

I am one of those guys who nurses old tech along as long as possible. I have home audio equipment from the 70's, and my last desktop and laptop were from 2005. I just recently replaced those 2005 computers, they were functioning horribly, one of them was an XP machine, I had to reload software on it last year and found the restore disc had 9 year outdated software, and when I went to apply updates Windows had pulled ALL XP support. Meaning that computer was stuck in 2005! Both of those computers actually became obsolete at least 5 years ago, and were painful to use these last few years. What the hell happened to them that they couldn't just browse the web? Same with an Android 2.x smartphone I have. Try and use that damn thing in 2015, it is choking on even the simplest of tasks. It was fine a few years ago.

And people WANT this tech in cars? And Honda is FORCING it onto everyone who wants to buy a new Honda??

Maybe this isn't an issue for you or 87% of Americans whose consumer level A.D.D. keeps the wheels of our economy (and China's) lubed up nicely with tech upgrades every few years, and purging of old tech before it becomes too "uncool". But a car is a serious thing to manufacture, and somewhere between 13-16% of people keep their cars for decades and 100% of cars traded in because of being outdated then become someone else's headache.

I'm with Paul. Offer a basic freaking CD/AM/FM/AUX head unit for EVERY level of Honda. Just something that the dealer can slide out the infotainment unit and slide in the simple unit.

Yes I have seen "outdated." That is the nature of technology. As part of the GenY group I would say CDs are on that list of "outdated." Have you not read about Apple Car Play and the Android equivalent? This is the future of motor vehicles people. Honda is one of the first but it's coming to ALL new vehicles starting this year! You don't have to like it or buy into it. Simply buy something else that is still stuck in time. The tech industry will simply move forward without you. As a business minded individual, I think this is a smart move for Honda. They are aware that most consumers of the Civic will be the younger generations. Those of us at the beginning of our careers who embrace new tech. Not only embrace it but DEMAND it. I would never have purchased the new Civic had it not been updated with the latest Tech. Period. And I think I speak for the majority of the younger generations. Sorry if that hurts your feelers in any way. But the world will simply move forward... With or without you. It's really that simple. The same thing happened when car companies stopped installing 8 track players and cassette players. And who are you trying to kid?! Digital audio is far more convenient and gives superior audio quality. Why wouldn't you want the best that today has to offer? If I'm going to keep something for 30 years (which I would never do) I'd want the best I could get today so that it does last that long. Oh yes.... And for those of you complaining that you don't want to move you music from one device to the next as you upgrade... IT'S CALLED CLOUD STORAGE! Everything is automatically downloaded for you as soon as you sign in to the device! PLEASE do NOT gripe, complain or act like a know it all on a subject unless you are actually knowledgable and interested in learning more about that subject. *mic drop*

 

[takemorepills]

Yes I have seen "outdated." That is the nature of technology. As part of the GenY group I would say CDs are on that list of "outdated." Have you not read about Apple Car Play and the Android equivalent? This is the future of motor vehicles people. Honda is one of the first but it's coming to ALL new vehicles starting this year! You don't have to like it or buy into it. Simply buy something else that is still stuck in time. The tech industry will simply move forward without you. As a business minded individual, I think this is a smart move for Honda. They are aware that most consumers of the Civic will be the younger generations. Those of us at the beginning of our careers who embrace new tech. Not only embrace it but DEMAND it. I would never have purchased the new Civic had it not been updated with the latest Tech. Period. And I think I speak for the majority of the younger generations. Sorry if that hurts your feelers in any way. But the world will simply move forward... With or without you. It's really that simple. The same thing happened when car companies stopped installing 8 track players and cassette players. And who are you trying to kid?! Digital audio is far more convenient and gives superior audio quality. Why wouldn't you want the best that today has to offer? If I'm going to keep something for 30 years (which I would never do) I'd want the best I could get today so that it does last that long. Oh yes.... And for those of you complaining that you don't want to move you music from one device to the next as you upgrade... IT'S CALLED CLOUD STORAGE! Everything is automatically downloaded for you as soon as you sign in to the device! PLEASE do NOT gripe, complain or act like a know it all on a subject unless you are actually knowledgable and interested in learning more about that subject. *mic drop*

oooh, "mic drop"!! /oh snap end all!

Older vehicles don't generally suffer from having "outdated" in car tech, as with 90+% of vehicles have a double din dash opening that can accept anything a tech enthusiast with said car would like to add now or in the future. CivicX has screwed that up by integrating the HVAC controls into a soon to be outdated "Android Tablet" type of HU that doesn't mount in a standard way. So your philosophy of wanting the best as it comes along will cause the CivicX to be outdated sooner than your car payments because there PROBABLY won't be a hardware upgrade option available. Well, maybe some eBay Chinese company will offer a buggy, half baked solution. Because as you know, with new tech comes new hardware requirements, at some point.

 

[heath3990]

I guarantee many of the songs on my CD's can't be found on those services. Also streaming is not free, requiring a data plan (or using T-mobile's crappy service). And I like to be able to pick an album and play it through. That's the way us old folks did it. I can't remember if you can do that on those services or not.

You can play an album through on Spotify. No they are not free. I pay about $10 per month for Spotify premium. You CAN use it for free but it will have an occasional commercial (still less than radio though). As far as data goes it does not use a lot of data to stream music. But an alternative on Spotify is you can download an entire album using wi-fi and then listen to it offline using zero data. So essentially you can pay $10 and download all the content you want with wi-fi vs $10-$20 per album with CDs. And there's no clutter in your car or fumbling through CDs trying to find that song that's on your mind.

 

[takemorepills]

You know what, I see a trend here on this thread between the advocating and the objecting authors.

The objecting authors are lamenting that Honda is "forcing" something upon us. Some objecting people would like to see CD player option, and myself, I would like to see Honda give us a path out of what they have set upon. Such as a way to install a regular stereo and not have issues with the HVAC controls. I think this is all harmless.

The advocates keep admonishing people for "being stuck in the past" or having "outdated" mindsets. This is a pretty f'ed up way to see things. It is a pretty intolerant way to see things.

The advocates will be proven wrong, because a few industrious CivicX owners WILL find a way to yard out this head unit, figure out the HVAC controls and get someone to come up with a solution. And there will be a lot of bitching in the meanwhile. And if/when a solution becomes available, it will be popular at first and then necessary later in the years of this car's life as it's baked in "Android" HU becomes useless in the future.

 

[hondo]

Honda isn't alone in this new non-DIN route. The Mazda3 and CX-3 have the display that sits upright on the dash, as do many other automakers. This is annoying for those who have specific needs that could be met by dropping in their own aftermarket headunit. But they know don't most buyers don't care. Even if the built-in units are buggy, most buyers are only looking at a feature rundown when shopping. They aren't reading forums to find out how well they work.

Though I haven't bought a cd in years, the exclusion seems a bit pre-mature. What I really wish they didn't drop was aux. I think phone connectivity is a must these days, not just for audio but also for hands free calling. Radio listening has drop off a lot. It's like the cord-cutting and migration to Netflix. Most people don't buy a portable stereo anymore, just a bluetooth speaker. This is kind of the path car audio will take, letting the car's screen and speakers serve as an extension of the phone. These "cool" features don't appeal to everyone, but they certainly help sell the car overall. It's all a numbers game. It's too bad that they moved away from standard DIN, but this also seems to be the trend as auto-manufactures don't want to be restricted by the design limitations of using DIN.

 

[dick w]

Yes I know. But people call MP3s and such digital, vs. a physical CD. I didn't make up those naming conventions.

No, but you do seem to have made up the convention that buying a CD is not buying digital music.

Regardless of what you do, a lot of people still have, buy, and play CD's, so why couldn't Honda spend the extra $10 on a CD player for each car?
…
In summary, CD's may be going away, but are far from gone. Using your argument, Honda should have eliminated gasoline engines as well.

I still buy CDs too. I don't want to see them go away if the replacement is all this overcompressed yuck MP3 stuff. But eliminating the CD player from the car makes perfect sense when there are so many better alternatives, the most significant of which is the USB port. It eliminates the biggest set of failure modes from the device. Something electronic beats something electro-opto-mechanical for reliability any day. (Sadly they've replaced it with incredibly unreliable software--way less reliable than the CD players were… But I'd much rather they fixed than than put CD players back in the car.) CDs and especially the jewel cases and album note inserts take quite a beating in the automotive environment. I'm quite happy leaving them at home where they belong.

I don't begin to understand how the argument that removing CD players from the car, given the better technological choices for the same purpose, equates to arguing that Honda should have eliminated gasoline engines. There is clearly no better choice available. There may be some alternatives that have some better properties. But each of those comes with fatal weaknesses as well. What's the weakness of putting your digital music in the car using a USB stick vs using a CD as the transport medium? The only one I can think of is the headache of ripping it all from the CDs and writing it to the sticks.

 

[takemorepills]

I'll admit, I bought a Pioneer "mechless" head unit for my Prelude when the stock radio's fader gave out. The Pioneer has no mechanism, it is all solid state. It also has smartphone integration, somewhat limited by it's single DIN display. BUT, the Pioneer I bought does have analog AUX input 3.5mm, and it is very reliable. Even as reliable as it is, it occasionally has tech hiccups (or maybe my phone does??) and when that happens and I just want to get in the damn car and drive, I can play the USB thumbdrive (because the Pioneer doesn't crash) or if I need smartphone audio I can fall back on the good old 3.5mm AUX cable. I don't feel that is too "old fashioned".

Here's to the HOPE that Honda figures this out. I might be OK with the way they are going IF they can ever iron out the issues. Knowing the way modern tech is, they never will get it to 100%. And Another thing is that it needs to sound GOOD so I don't feel like tinkering with it, because there's not much that can be done anymore. I still wish they offered an old school line-in AUX 3.5mm for those times when you don't want to care about firmware compatibility.

 

[dick w]

The advocates keep admonishing people for "being stuck in the past" or having "outdated" mindsets. This is a pretty f'ed up way to see things. It is a pretty intolerant way to see things.

The advocates will be proven wrong, because a few industrious CivicX owners WILL find a way to yard out this head unit, figure out the HVAC controls and get someone to come up with a solution. And there will be a lot of bitching in the meanwhile. And if/when a solution becomes available, it will be popular at first and then necessary later in the years of this car's life as it's baked in "Android" HU becomes useless in the future.

It's not about intolerance. It's about realism of what the market demand drives the automakers to sell and what most buyers want. Now, one could argue that they created this demand with marketing. But the aftermarket guys are putting in the same features. You seem to think that some large proportion of car buyers want what you want: a less functional, less connected, car audio system, and that automakers are forcing the more functional, more connected, stuff on them for some nefarious reason like just to piss you off. I see no evidence for this and a lot of evidence for the opposite view. If you think that's intolerant, so be it.

I also don't begin to know what makes you think the Android HU will become "useless" in the future. Unless you are expecting that Honda won't fix the bugs that make it borderline useless now. Other than that risk, the suspect areas, to my mind, are the vendor-specific apps like Pandora and Aha. That is does not integrate the telephony but uses the customer's is an argument for it not going obsolete as quickly. How many OnStar systems died when they pulled the plug on AMPS? I bought the cell phone option with my '99 SLK230. It was an AMPS phone and a proprietary connection to the phone from the car. Rendered the entire option useless when Verizon pulled the plug on AMPS. Is USB going to go obsolete in the next 10 years? WiFi? Bluetooth HFP? (My first car with that was an '04 Acura TL. It was one of the very first HFL cars. Bet it would work today with my '14 Nexus 5. But the cassette player in it would be just as stupid and useless as it was in '04. And it probably wouldn't work any more besides.)

 

[hondo]

I'll admit, I bought a Pioneer

From what I've read so far, Pioneer seems to be doing phone integration right. More so than even other aftermarkets. I wish auto manufactures would just drop in a decent head unit from a company like Pioneer. Let Honda stick to what they know and do well, let electronics manufactures do what they do best. At least Honda doesn't do the stupid co-branding stuff like paying Bose to let them slap the name on some cheap paper speakers. Of course it would eat into their margins and probably raise the sticker prices.

 

[dick w]

The Civic Display Audio HU is built by Mitsubishi not Honda. The bigger question is who is writing the code? (And where do they live…)

And I'm not defending the quality of the product Honda is delivering. It is inexcusable we have to talk about pulling fuses to get the radio working. I hate to have to keep repeating that I'm not defending the buggy Honda implementation but there doesn't seem to be a middle ground. Some posters seem to think either you want a 2001 technology audio system or you are defending the bugs of the current infotainment systems.

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