Anyone else need new tires so soon?

[CTSteve]

At 50% wear the compound feels like a couple tire classes lower on a car like the R. It definitely at that point is not capable in the snow any longer at all. In fact I believe at 65% ish there is no longer any wet capability either. And that’s by design.

This type of degradation makes it feel like a bait and switch with regard to tires.

most tires will degrade as they get closer to their wear bars but the dsw starts way too early.

“A visible "DWS" indicates the tire has appropriate tread depth for dry conditions, as well as wet roads and snow. After the "S" has worn away, the remaining "DW" indicates the tire only has appropriate tread depth for dry and most wet road conditions. And after the "W" and "S"have both worn away, the remaining "D" indicates the tire has appropriate tread depth for dry conditions only.”

I just can’t recommend these for people that expect consistency through most of the expected lifetime of a tire.

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[CTSteve]

So, perhaps winter tires should just be winter tires over time, not A /S, even in marginal conditions.

I asked the question because I had seen a post elsewhere that said in daily driving I should expect better wear in the second half of the life of the summer tires because of a change in the composition. Did not mention that I should also should expect a decrease in tire performance as well. Just means that you need to understand where you are in the life of the tires and compensate accordingly, or replace them even earlier.

 

[tinyman392]

At 50% wear the compound feels like a couple tire classes lower on a car like the R. It definitely at that point is not capable in the snow any longer at all. In fact I believe at 65% ish there is no longer any wet capability either. And that’s by design.

This type of degradation makes it feel like a bait and switch with regard to tires.

most tires will degrade as they get closer to their wear bars but the dsw starts way too early.

“A visible "DWS" indicates the tire has appropriate tread depth for dry conditions, as well as wet roads and snow. After the "S" has worn away, the remaining "DW" indicates the tire only has appropriate tread depth for dry and most wet road conditions. And after the "W" and "S"have both worn away, the remaining "D" indicates the tire has appropriate tread depth for dry conditions only.”

I just can’t recommend these for people that expect consistency through most of the expected lifetime of a tire.

@CTSteve (I'm tagging you in here as well if you don't mind). I don't think the compound itself changes. All of this could actually be attributed to tread wear. Thinner treading (which happens over time) will lead to worse performance in snow/slush/mud then eventually rain/water. Granted it's possible that it could change in terms of compound, but changing compound in layers like that would probably lead to some sort of delimitation as the compounds change and have different properties in different weather conditions. That being said, their consistency in dry should be about the same throughout the life of the tire. As the tread on the tire goes away, its ability to handle snow and eventually rain will dwindle, but that goes for any tire really.

 

[yargk]

At 50% wear the compound feels like a couple tire classes lower on a car like the R. It definitely at that point is not capable in the snow any longer at all. In fact I believe at 65% ish there is no longer any wet capability either. And that’s by design.

This type of degradation makes it feel like a bait and switch with regard to tires.

most tires will degrade as they get closer to their wear bars but the dsw starts way too early.

“A visible "DWS" indicates the tire has appropriate tread depth for dry conditions, as well as wet roads and snow. After the "S" has worn away, the remaining "DW" indicates the tire only has appropriate tread depth for dry and most wet road conditions. And after the "W" and "S"have both worn away, the remaining "D" indicates the tire has appropriate tread depth for dry conditions only.”

I just can’t recommend these for people that expect consistency through most of the expected lifetime of a tire.

Yeah, I also think you're misinterpreting this. With the DWS marking, they are just saying that you need more tread depth for W and S. The same could be said of any tire.

 

[jasonjm]

Yeah, I also think you're misinterpreting this. With the DWS marking, they are just saying that you need more tread depth for W and S. The same could be said of any tire.

That’s my point, I totally (like you) expect normal tires to have decreased capabilities due to lack of tread depth. I call this normal “tire life” above. That degradation being gradual. It makes sense, no tread depth, less ability to sip water, travel through snow, etc.

However the DWS’s “feel” worse, far earlier than expected. Don’t know how else to explain it.

It very well could be the tread design.

I do agree with the comment or above you, it may not be multi layer compound (which would cause premature delamination). However with the advent of advanced silica they can tune the inner or outer section width with more or less, and that can affect handling of those sections. I’m no tire scientist though.

Also and others have pointed it out through reviews that the tire has a softer compound in general than one would expect it to have.

For reference I’ve bought three sets of DWS tires for two cars.

Better off just buying a dedicated winter wheel and tire. Drives so much better.

 

[willskiGT]

I know this is a performance car, but at 22k miles I already need new tires. I never tracked the car and most of my driving is highway. I slam on it sometimes, but they ALL are extremely low.

Honda is quoting around $1700 for four new tires and an alignment. Should I get them somewhere else? Anyone have theirs replaced yet?

Typical mount and balance with an alignment is around $150-$200, depending on the shop.

Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tires in OEM size are ~$500 for a set currently.

Don't pay $1700 for the shitty stock tires.

 

[oak]

Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tires in OEM size are ~$500 for a set currently.

Are these real? Lol

please share where

 

[CTSteve]

Are these real? Lol

please share where

On Tire Rack these are $389 each, not $500/ set.

 

[willskiGT]

On Tire Rack these are $389 each, not $500/ set.

Yes, Tire Rack is overpriced and not the only tire supplier on the internet .

$527 a set shipped via FedEx. The price has gone up a bit in the past few weeks - it was $110/ea. You can usually find a 5% off or $20 coupon for Priority Tire, bringing the cost down to roughly $500.

I had a 5% off coupon and ordered 8 back in November. Total was just under $880 with tax/shipping.

Are these real? Lol

please share where

https://www.prioritytire.com/michelin-pilot-sport-cup-2-245-30r20-zr-90y-xl/

 

[stingray]

Sounds about right mileage wise. The manual estimates it can be as low as 10k miles or something. I changed mine out recently at around 23k too. Also, you dont need an alignment unless you have uneven tire wear issues.

Shop around if you want to get OEM tires which are pricey. My go to shop has them for $295 a piece installed.

There are other, cheaper alternatives too in our OEM size, like Falken FK510s, V12 Evos, etc.

You can also check out other tires in 35 profile or 255/35 profile for greater selection at the cost of speedo accuracy and some driving dynamic changes.

Mine has nearly 9k, and the still look new

 

[ez12a]

Yes, Tire Rack is overpriced and not the only tire supplier on the internet .

$527 a set shipped via FedEx. The price has gone up a bit in the past few weeks - it was $110/ea. You can usually find a 5% off or $20 coupon for Priority Tire, bringing the cost down to roughly $500.

I had a 5% off coupon and ordered 8 back in November. Total was just under $880 with tax/shipping.



https://www.prioritytire.com/michelin-pilot-sport-cup-2-245-30r20-zr-90y-xl/

I think a member in the FB group I'm in bought these. The caveat was that they were already 2 years old. Still a great deal since they wont last very long.

Also for anyone considering buying these, they should be noted that they are not recommended in the wet. It's outright dangerous and some googling can show anecdotal experiences with them. Those looking for street should prob go with PS4S if they want Michelins.

Mine has nearly 9k, and the still look new

Nice, 9k if you indeed have a Type R (forgive me I dont see it in your profile) is about just under half of the tread life on the Contis if driven normally (I DD mine, autox'ed it once). I'm sure for non-Rs its very easy to achieve 9k on the factory tires.

 

[Z3papa]

Yes, Tire Rack is overpriced and not the only tire supplier on the internet .

$527 a set shipped via FedEx. The price has gone up a bit in the past few weeks - it was $110/ea. You can usually find a 5% off or $20 coupon for Priority Tire, bringing the cost down to roughly $500.

I had a 5% off coupon and ordered 8 back in November. Total was just under $880 with tax/shipping.



https://www.prioritytire.com/michelin-pilot-sport-cup-2-245-30r20-zr-90y-xl/

Thanks for posting this link. If you go to the home page and do a basic search, the price in the link does not come up and is certainly no similar to similar sizes for the Cup 2's. It may be this is a close out size or glitch but the other sizes in 19" for that tire are much higher, and all the prices for my typical tires (Yokohama A052, Bridgestone RE71R or even BFG's are a fair amount higher.

 

[CTSteve]

Thanks for posting this link. If you go to the home page and do a basic search, the price in the link does not come up and is certainly no similar to similar sizes for the Cup 2's. It may be this is a close out size or glitch but the other sizes in 19" for that tire are much higher, and all the prices for my typical tires (Yokohama A052, Bridgestone RE71R or even BFG's are a fair amount higher.

Maybe a closeout. Noted that on Tire Rack there is one tire at a lower price and then a listing with general availability at a more normal price. Some change in the spec from Michelin perhaps?

 

[willskiGT]

Maybe a closeout. Noted that on Tire Rack there is one tire at a lower price and then a listing with general availability at a more normal price. Some change in the spec from Michelin perhaps?

They are clearing out old stock as far as I can tell.

I think a member in the FB group I'm in bought these. The caveat was that they were already 2 years old. Still a great deal since they wont last very long.

Mine were late 2015 production, so right at 4 years old. That may be too old for some, but these tires have been properly stored (no UV and no hot/cold cycling). A friend from undergrad who is a tire engineer with Michelin in SC said they are fine to mount up to 6 years of age as long as they have been stored correctly.

As an aside, the standard limited warranty in the US on these tires is 6 years, so a 4 year old tire that wears out in a year is no big deal. Michelin recommends age based replacement if the tires are 10+ years old.

Also for anyone considering buying these, they should be noted that they are not recommended in the wet. It's outright dangerous and some googling can show anecdotal experiences with them. Those looking for street should prob go with PS4S if they want Michelins.

I have daily driven my car with them mounted for 2k miles / 2 months and haven't had any aquaplaning issues, even in heavy rain. However, as the tread wears down, that may not be the case.

Thanks for posting this link. If you go to the home page and do a basic search, the price in the link does not come up and is certainly no similar to similar sizes for the Cup 2's. It may be this is a close out size or glitch but the other sizes in 19" for that tire are much higher, and all the prices for my typical tires (Yokohama A052, Bridgestone RE71R or even BFG's are a fair amount higher.

I believe it is a close out on the 20" MPSC2s due to age. But didn't look at any other tires from that site. I can confirm that the 8 tires I received and the 4 my buddy received were all late 2015 / early 2016 production date tires. They have zero signs of aging/dry rotting and have plenty of oil left on the outer surface indicating proper storage. Since they'll only last me ~1 year (driving around 12k miles per year with mountain runs and a few track days), I'm fine with running them.

 

[WrongWayWade]

Thanks for responses...Guess the 22k point is normal..Going to shop around man dealers always tryna get you on the price!!

I continue to have good success with TireRack.com. Full selection, goodprices, and they'll ship them directly to your installer. I've switched to All-Season tires (Continental DWS06) on a new 19" rim and the last set was about $860 + installation charge.

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