9th gen Si vs 10th gen Si, a short comparison.

  1. Redglare

    Redglare Senior Member

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    #1 Redglare, Jun 5, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2017
    I am sure everyone here is sick of reading reviews; but for anyone curious about what a 9th gen Si owner thinks, read on.

    A little background about my past and current vehicles that I will be using as a baseline to assess the new gen.
    I currently daily drive a 9th gen Si with around 45k miles on the clock that I owned since its inception in 2012.
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    my weekend toy is a 370z 6mt, which won't really be compared due to being a completely different type of animal, but still being relevant as a baseline.

    I am no stranger to honda, my first being an 05' s2000 which in my book is still the best sports car that I've driven to date.

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    The review:

    Interior: I love everything in this car from material feel, it punches above its weight and far supersedes the 9th gen interior in both ergonomics and quality of plastics/soft touch materials. The seats are a 10/10 - immense upgrade over the 9th gen, very nicely bolstered. In fact I like the seats even better than my 370z, they actually remind me of the s2000 buckets in terms of feel and grip.
    Being cloth is a huge plus for me as it provides the perfect grip/ doesn't feel too cold or hot with the seasons.
    I didn't get to play much with the HU or apple/android playy but the layout/gauge cluster felt right at home in this car.

    10/10 - good job honda,
    -------

    Handling/suspension:

    I kept the car in sport mode so I can't give you a baseline on the normal mode; but basically - it feels even lighter vs the 9th gen, the spring rate feels perfectly dialed in for street use and firm enough to carve some corners, make no mistake the car is dialed in for understeer but I am sure with a nice rear sway bar it will dial out just like the 9th gen.

    My only gripe here is the turning radius is much worse vs. the 9th Si, also not a big deal but for a daily driver I prefer a much tighter steering rack with a narrow turning radius.

    I drove the car equipped with summer tires on a hot & humid day, pushing the car inspires confidence and the chassis definitely has A LOT of room for more power, this car could easily handle another 50-60hp/tq on the current suspension/tires without pushing the boundaries too much.

    As far as the LSD goes, I do not feel it on my 9th gen just like I didn't on the 17', I think you really have to push the car at 10/10 on a racetrack to feel the benefit, maybe im just a noob but I feel like its more of a gimmick/something to put down on the spec sheet because in the real world I just never felt the benefit, including the VLSD in my 370z.

    8/10 - impressed.
    ---
    Drivetrain;

    I swear the shifter feels nearly identical to the 9th gen, which is a great thing since the 9th gen was rated as the best transmission in MT back in '12, and it still has some of the s2000 feel as well - making this transmission far superior in terms of feel vs many cars above its price category - it puts the 370z manual shifter to shame, the Si has a satisfying engaging point for each gear and clearly defined shifter gates making a money shift/miss-shift nearly impossible, again adding to the ease of driveabiltiy.

    The clutch is surprisingly slightly lighter, this is interesting since it makes the car much easier to drive for a beginner but does take away some of the visceral feeling, it has become more like an on/off switch in this iteration, meaning its nearly impossible to stall it/ drive train lash. I'd prefer a stiffer clutch but I can understand why an entry lever performance sedan has a feather clutch, ultimately its for driveability - your foot will never tire in heavy traffic and driver fatigue will never be an issue.
    To the people who are used to stiffer clutches you may be disappointed as I was, but ultimately I can get used to the feel.

    Unfortunately this is where the fun stopped and I got a dagger stabbing pain behind my right eye, I am not sure what honda was contemplating when they put the 1.5T in this car, compared to the K24Z7 in the 9th gen this engine is a huge downgrade in terms of feel (at least stock for stock), the torque hits much earlier vs the k24 but that is the only upside, after the initial surge - the car is just dead, in the 9th gen you would first get an initial surge at 4400 and it would keep building all the way to 7000 rpm allowing you to ride the wave of exhilaration with anticipation of the next gear pull.

    Don't get me wrong, on paper and in real life the 10th gen is most likely as fast or maybe even faster vs the 9th Si, but sitting behind the wheel of both, the excitement of acceleration is just not there - maybe its partially due to the 10th gen exhaust being at least half as loud or the much narrower power band, but the end result is not good in stock form - this car needs a tune badly.

    This chassis is a gem, but the motor honda chose was a huge mistake, this car needed the 2.0 from the CTR, period.

    I came with full intent of trading my 9th gen in, and left with teary eyes and a broken heart, going to wait and see what the tuners can do and maybe redeem the let down that honda bestowed upon us.

    4/10 - heart broken.

    edit:
    I apologize in advance since I know a lot of people already picked one up and are enjoying the car, and honestly If you never experienced the K series engine - this car will feel great and is a perfect daily, but for anyone who touched an 8th or a 9th gen - definitely expect to feel the pain.

    This really threw a wrench in to my plans since I already had financing lined up from my bank, not sure what I am going to do next.
     
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  2. Phosky

    Phosky Senior Member

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    There's always the 2.0T expected to be in the new Accord to look forward to. Motor swap opportunity?
     
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  3. ne0guri

    ne0guri Senior Member

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    Do you have more pictures of that White Sedan??!! :spaz:
     
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  4. erbee

    erbee Senior Member

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    In a few months these Si will probably cheaper than a low mile 2015 Si. Let's just hope CTR is worth watering down Si for.
     
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  5. kritz

    kritz Senior Member

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    Funny that the K24 was criticized much in the same way vs the K20. It had much more torque but lacked the 8,000RPM scream and didn't have as much a kick up high. I swore I'd never buy a 9th for that reason but did and loved it anyways. I'm loving the little turbo for now. :)
     
  6. kritz

    kritz Senior Member

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  7. OP
    Redglare

    Redglare Senior Member

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    That is true, I remember reading reviews of all the complaints haha - but still it wasn't a radical change, they lowered the rpm 1000 for some more torque down low, which in the end was acceptable since it drove similar to the 8th. This one though, the change was too radical - got rid of vtec/exhaust note/rpm is just like any car out there, also a minor complaint the steering wheel doesn't say Si anymore :(.

    I think if they released a factory stage 1 tune for the car, upping the rpm/power - while maintaining warranty I would most likely trade in.
    b158a934dd7d973e30aa894f9ab.jpg
     
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  8. kritz

    kritz Senior Member

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    True, it doesn't have the intake roar or exhaust sound. I miss that little DOHC V-tec badge on the lower rear quarters. Maybe DOHC VTC would work lol
     
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  9. OP
    Redglare

    Redglare Senior Member

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    afterthought:

    when we buy lower powered cars, we are buying the experience/fun factor and not the actual acceleration figures - in a world where a v6 minivan can pull away from us and 300-400hp is considered the slower end of fast, the redeeming feature that keeps us buying these 200hp cars is the joy of driving, and when honda goes and takes most of that visceral joy away you are left pondering, why would I buy this car over say an ex-t, or a turbo hundai, the shifter feel is really the last redeeming quality that honda left in there :(.

    I guess I will go test drive a wrx, but I really don't care for that car as much as I care for the Si.
     
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  10. erbee

    erbee Senior Member

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  11. elusiveaura

    elusiveaura Senior Member

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    The problem is you're comparing this car to the K24 motor that had VTEC. You had to wind those cars out. I have a 9th gen and have a 10th on order. I've seen enough videos and professional reviews to realize the car is faster than the 9th. The acceleration seems to be plenty enough. If I want power and I'm in 5th/6th gear, I will just downshift and press the gas. That's the joy of a manual. I was never one to wind the car out to 7k RPM. Yes it sounds good but most of my enjoyment was between 3-6k RPM. This car seems to deliver that same excitement with a much refined interior and superior handling/chassis. My expectations aren't set on a 2.0 like most were for months before a reveal. I also don't need a type R. People wanted near type R performance in an SI, not gonna happen. Maybe I'm being too forgiving with Honda but then again maybe my expectations are just set in reality. When you go in with expectations and trying to compare it to a vehicle you're accustomed too, more than not you're going to set yourself up for disappointment.

    I don't live 0-60 I still don't get why people are so bent on HP numbers alone. The car looks extremely fast,nimble, and comfortable for what it is. To make it sound better, just buy an aftermarket exhaust. These cars are made for tuners in mind.

     
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  12. LoveToDrive

    LoveToDrive Senior Member

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    #12 LoveToDrive, Jun 5, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2017
    @Redglare :grouphug:

    I cried after the test drive this past weekend. I wanted to like this so much, too, and be wowed by its new identity and character. My initial conclusion is that for those who have never had an Si will love this Si. For most of those (not all) who lived with the K series will not like the new Si.

    Which is perfectly fine. I'm okay that everyone has different needs, wants, and past history / experience with different cars. I definitely disagree that, as a car, this is a fail or a dud as some may say. And, I'm very happy for those of you who already live with this car and are enjoying it. :thumbsup:

    What made me sad is that with so many darn trims and styles the 10th gen has, the FEEL (not the specs) of all the turbos are just too similar, and left us with a void. They ALL ride/drive the same, and the hatch and Si are even more similar. I had test driven an EX-T before and was hoping that the Si would kick it up a notch in the driving-experience department.

    I never thought that my *LX* would feel closer to the 9th gen Si. 10th gen is already a great platform; it only makes sense. To me, the new Si is missing the rawness and liveliness that I was looking for in a sporty car. Overall, it felt too subdued. I understand some people are looking for that. I never considered my LX to be raw, but it is now compared to this Si.

    I'm going to give it some more time, test drive again, and see how I feel. It took me a few test drives before deciding to buy the 15 Si so the same could happen.
     
  13. coopermidnight

    coopermidnight Senior Member

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    @Redglare What did you think about the turbo lag? You didn't mention it in your review, but it's been a heated topic ever since the buyers have been trickling in.
     
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  14. OP
    Redglare

    Redglare Senior Member

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    I was too upset about the drive experience, but I felt it wasn't as bad as some people make it out to be, I feel like honda is creating artificial turbo lag in this motor - probably for longevity purposes, but yea its there - if you drive a gti and then the Si it will become really apparent, its definitely to preserve the drivetrain components but I feel that this will be the first area that the tuners will 'unlock', i.e. you will most likely see full torque hit as early as 1500 rpm after a flash.
     
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  15. Wizerud

    Wizerud Senior Member

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    I haven't test driven it yet but having owned an 8th and 9th gen (and before that a Miata and an RX-8 - two other "underpowered" normally aspirated vehicles) I can't imagine the driving experience to be more enjoyable given the traits of this engine even though it's more powerful than any of those. The engine is supposed to be a primary attribute in the fun factor stakes - not the least desirable thing. I'd rather they kept the K24 and tuned it a little at this point.

    Like the OP, I'm ready to buy a new car now. But there's none out there that truly appeal to me like I was hoping the new Si would. I've looked at the WRX (too "bro", unrefined interior, shit gas mileage, common as **** around here), GTI (don't trust the reliability but maybe on a three year lease I wouldn't have to worry about that), the Mini Countryman All4 and it's cousin the X1 (same feelings as GTI but they are a lot more expensive), the Civ Sport Touring (hatchback or sedan - but I couldn't stomach paying 5k more for an even less sporty ride) and of course the Type R (thanks Honda for making it unattainable at a reasonable price).

    Maybe the best car for me is the one I already have until something else shows up. Or Honda wises up and makes the 2018 more appealing somehow to its traditional fans.

    Or maybe the Si has grown up faster than I have ;)
     
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