350WHP

[Neps18Si]

My opinion on the Si...I don't think its a car to try to push major HP. I don't think its a car to try and race against the V8's out there or get low 1/4 mile runs. I read how everyone is doing builds here for power and then ka-boom, once you reach above "i guess" the 300-350 mark then reliability becomes and issue. To me you are just driving a ticking time bomb once you get all the go
I believe that Honda from even the past is more for handling then HP, but that is what I think. Like 20 years ago some rich kid I was working with buys a Integra Type R and then turbo charges it. I ask him why turbo charge it the engine has high compression pistons and now you have to change all that for lower compression ones. Why not just get a GSR and turbo that? Well he ended up blowing the motor just to spend even more money, but I guess his parents had deep pockets.
That to me was a waste of money, but not my money who cares. I think cars have to be built with balance and that is what i am trying to do with my Si.
I am only tuned running TSP stage 1, 27WON RMM, PRL stage one and better gripping Firehawks. That right there has the car more balanced then when i drove it off the lot. I have a whiteline rear bar and links awaiting install with projuect Mu racing brake fluid. I want to get the 27won intake and someones exhaust system lower it on Eibach springs and just enjoy the rest of the lease. Maybe wheels...who knows.
Point is I don't bash anyone on their builds, but this car i believe is not for extreme power.
Get and R or get someone else that will get you to 350 with no internal mods. Unless you yourself can do the work I would not pay anyone thousands of dollars to give me a piece of mind that the engine won't break and that is not promised.

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[Oddwayne]

By the time you upgrade the internals of a 10th gen Si to handle the power and boost and the cost of tuning and the time you are going to put into it, you will be getting close to CTR money. IMO you should maybe look into a used CTR. You would be able to get to 350WHP with a tune and probably no other bolt-on's

Pistons,rods, clutch, turbo, tuning hardware and tune, I think you would still be a few grand under what a type sells for

 

[Oddwayne]

My opinion on the Si...I don't think its a car to try to push major HP. I don't think its a car to try and race against the V8's out there or get low 1/4 mile runs. I read how everyone is doing builds here for power and then ka-boom, once you reach above "i guess" the 300-350 mark then reliability becomes and issue. To me you are just driving a ticking time bomb once you get all the go
I believe that Honda from even the past is more for handling then HP, but that is what I think. Like 20 years ago some rich kid I was working with buys a Integra Type R and then turbo charges it. I ask him why turbo charge it the engine has high compression pistons and now you have to change all that for lower compression ones. Why not just get a GSR and turbo that? Well he ended up blowing the motor just to spend even more money, but I guess his parents had deep pockets.
That to me was a waste of money, but not my money who cares. I think cars have to be built with balance and that is what i am trying to do with my Si.
I am only tuned running TSP stage 1, 27WON RMM, PRL stage one and better gripping Firehawks. That right there has the car more balanced then when i drove it off the lot. I have a whiteline rear bar and links awaiting install with projuect Mu racing brake fluid. I want to get the 27won intake and someones exhaust system lower it on Eibach springs and just enjoy the rest of the lease. Maybe wheels...who knows.
Point is I don't bash anyone on their builds, but this car i believe is not for extreme power.
Get and R or get someone else that will get you to 350 with no internal mods. Unless you yourself can do the work I would not pay anyone thousands of dollars to give me a piece of mind that the engine won't break and that is not promised.

You’re doing all that on a car you don’t own? Lol are you buying it out at the end?

 

[Obzidian]

By the time you upgrade the internals of a 10th gen Si to handle the power and boost and the cost of tuning and the time you are going to put into it, you will be getting close to CTR money. IMO you should maybe look into a used CTR. You would be able to get to 350WHP with a tune and probably no other bolt-on's

$14k plus in parts, install and tuning??

I dont see it. Unless a built shortblock, stock displacement or hell even a stroke/bore to 2.0l's is around 10k ... buddy.. i think ur math is all sorts of wrong.

 

[amirza786]

$14k plus in parts, install and tuning??

I dont see it. Unless a built shortblock, stock displacement or hell even a stroke/bore to 2.0l's is around 10k ... buddy.. i think ur math is all sorts of wrong.

Eman spent more than that, and he did severything himself accept the tune

I asked @kshawn what he spent on his build awhile back, and he can correct me if my memory isn't serving me right, but I think he told me $8k plus, and I don't think he was making near 350 WHP

 

[Myx]

I'm in the process of purchasing an Si. I would like to eventually gather parts(Flex, 27Won Turbo, clutch, etc) to see 340-350 to the wheels. Would this be a reasonable number on stock internals? Most likely tuned through the highly recommended IMW. I don't plan on any digs. Mostly canyons/rolls. Would like to hear from anyone running near or at this power range as well. Lemme know

Why 340-350hp to the wheels? There's a reason why you chose this number range.

 

[Neps18Si]

You’re doing all that on a car you don’t own? Lol are you buying it out at the end?

Even when your "buying the car" it's not yours because the bank still holds the title unless you pay it off and if you don't pay the bank well you know, so the the difference is I just have to abide by the miles driven which i am not worried about. What is the difference?
To answer your first question yes i am doing that to my car because my money my problem. These are simple upgrades I can then sell later to get some money back.
Your second question I may not keep it. I see that this car is great and I do love it, but I want to see what Honda offers for the next gen Si or maybe an R.
If nothing of Honda appeases me then I will hunt for what I actually would keep and to make you laugh a Fiesta ST. I love micro hatches and when i drove one I loved it.
The Si is a great car, but for now I will just enjoy it for the lease term and turn it in.

 

[charleswrivers]

A lot of good suggestions on this thread. Its one thing to buy a car... enjoy it... want more and stick with it and mod. I think it's another to be car shopping and say you're going to intentionally pick a car that is making 1/2 of your desired WHP and that you're going to pour 10k to reach that goal. If you have to stay Civic... you should already be looking at a CTR which can reach your goal with a reflash.

I'm not sure where the "350" number is coming from. There's a reason no production cars I can think of make much more than 300 HP on a FWD platform. It's generally wasted except at highway-plus speeds. If you're looking for being quick off the line? Wrong platform. High speed fun? Again... I say you start with a CTR and save a lot of heartache. If you dump 10k in a Si, on top of 22-24k to buy it... you'll have a Si with questionable reliability and never see a return on that investment. 35k-40k on a CTR might be good enough. If not... a few hundred for a reflash and (maybe) done. CTRs hold their value well and from a performance stand point, effectively beat a Si in every way other than miles per gallon, and long term fuel costs and tire costs on it's stock rims.

Or... again... totally wrong platform.

I will say, I dumped my 9th gen for a 10th gen with the intention to mod it. I went from stock power to a (hopefully) still-reliable ~240 whp for $600. If I wanted to double stock power before I'd even bought the car... I'd of looked at any number of 2.0L turbocharged cars, CTR included that not only start off more powerful but have larger turbos that need not be replaced to achieve well north of 300 whp on pump gas. The Si is a great car but I think it's a mismatch to this number you've thrown out. You should reevaluate that number... or the car you want to achieve it with, since you haven't bought it yet and it's not too late to do so.

10 + years from now when you can get a Si for under 10k used... sure, it might be a good car to work with to do what you're talking about. New? IMO... terrible choice.

 

[amirza786]

A lot of good suggestions on this thread. Its one thing to buy a car... enjoy it... want more and stick with it and mod. I think it's another to be car shopping and say you're going to intentionally pick a car that is making 1/2 of your desired WHP and that you're going to pour 10k to reach that goal. If you have to stay Civic... you should already be looking at a CTR which can reach your goal with a reflash.

I'm not sure where the "350" number is coming from. There's a reason no production cars I can think of make much more than 300 HP on a FWD platform. It's generally wasted except at highway-plus speeds. If you're looking for being quick off the line? Wrong platform. High speed fun? Again... I say you start with a CTR and save a lot of heartache. If you dump 10k in a Si, on top of 22-24k to buy it... you'll have a Si with questionable reliability and never see a return on that investment. 35k-40k on a CTR might be good enough. If not... a few hundred for a reflash and (maybe) done. CTRs hold their value well and from a performance stand point, effectively beat a Si in every way other than miles per gallon, and long term fuel costs and tire costs on it's stock rims.

Or... again... totally wrong platform.

I will say, I dumped my 9th gen for a 10th gen with the intention to mod it. I went from stock power to a (hopefully) still-reliable ~240 whp for $600. If I wanted to double stock power before I'd even bought the car... I'd of looked at any number of 2.0L turbocharged cars, CTR included that not only start off more powerful but have larger turbos that need not be replaced to achieve well north of 300 whp on pump gas. The Si is a great car but I think it's a mismatch to this number you've thrown out. You should reevaluate that number... or the car you want to achieve it with, since you haven't bought it yet and it's not too late to do so.

10 + years from now when you can get a Si for under 10k used... sure, it might be a good car to work with to do what you're talking about. New? IMO... terrible choice.

What @charleswrivers said!

 

[amirza786]

Even when your "buying the car" it's not yours because the bank still holds the title unless you pay it off and if you don't pay the bank well you know, so the the difference is I just have to abide by the miles driven which i am not worried about. What is the difference?
To answer your first question yes i am doing that to my car because my money my problem. These are simple upgrades I can then sell later to get some money back.
Your second question I may not keep it. I see that this car is great and I do love it, but I want to see what Honda offers for the next gen Si or maybe an R.
If nothing of Honda appeases me then I will hunt for what I actually would keep and to make you laugh a Fiesta ST. I love micro hatches and when i drove one I loved it.
The Si is a great car, but for now I will just enjoy it for the lease term and turn it in.

I would pick up a used Fiesta with low mileage, you can get them pretty cheap. No more new cars for me, except maybe a family minivan where we drive the crap out of it for a couple hundred thousand miles. Let someone else break it in and eat the devaluation

 

[MutatedMango]

I'm in the process of purchasing an Si. I would like to eventually gather parts(Flex, 27Won Turbo, clutch, etc) to see 340-350 to the wheels. Would this be a reasonable number on stock internals? Most likely tuned through the highly recommended IMW. I don't plan on any digs. Mostly canyons/rolls. Would like to hear from anyone running near or at this power range as well. Lemme know

Check this out

 

[amirza786]

Check this out

He spent a lot of money getting this car to 360 WHP. It has a lot of Type R parts...

 

[charleswrivers]

Check this out

I remember seeing that and I thought it was (is) a pretty impressive build.

The mods list for the video is:

PRL 1.5t si Cobra Intake
PRL 1.5t Intercooler
PRL 1.5t Prototype turbo kit
PRL Race Down pipe
HPD Big Brake Kit
Ktuner V2 Touch screen flash device

I'd guess that's a good 5k in parts... not counting any labor.

But you can also see the car has aftermarket rims and I assume tires... CTR-looking exhaust... it has to have an aftermarket clutch... lowering springs... that's got to amount to another $3k... possibly more. There may be more there but that's what I see at a glance.

For a car that cost 22-24k OTD at best, depending on where you live... we've breached 30k and are getting dangerously close to CTR money once you pull the engine and replace the rods and pistons. Parts alone are $1k+... even if you DITY I doubt you could get by for much less and an extra ~$500 worth of randomness you'd need... fluids... freon recharge... etc..

It is an awesome car. If you bought a car... loved it... and over the course of ownership you keep adding parts here and there as your hobby to make it into what it is, I can get onboard with it. The idea of buying a car that's felt to be not enough and spend the money to try and make it the equal (and fail) of something else you can already get now just doesn't make any sense to me.

For the OPs direction... doing a 27WON turbo and Flexfuel is pretty economical at $2k... and those installs are w/in the capability of a guy w/some basic tools and a day to get it done. Add 2k for a tuner + tune and clutch+install (unless you want to tackle that and save ~$500 or so.) is probably 2k. Would the engine hold? Very-possibly-maybe... and that's a lot of power for a $4k premium over the base Si cost. If the engine doesn't hold... the cost of a used short block right now would cost what it would have cost to have done rods and pistons in the first place. It's a newish car and $200 L15B7s haven't filled the junkyards yet... and you'll need one if you throw a rod through the block. Are you able/willing to make a brand-new car less reliable by trying to double your power... being out your warranty? Is it going to be your DD? Can you live w/o it and afford it to go pop?

OP... looking at your route to get there... your number looks like it came from 27WON blog. To match them... you'll need to add FP/DP, intercooler, and CAI to the tune of a good 1.5-2k. You could get by without them and still be far north of 300 WHP, though rising IATs will take their toll on actual power under sustained hard driving. But that's bringing you back to around 6k over the cost of the car... and a total-car-cost in excess of $30k... still w/stock internals. There are some great tuners out there who will do their best to keep longevity. You are, however... asking a 1.5L engine to produce over 200 WHP/L and 250 ft-lbs/L. Look at other engines out there and try to find ones that make that kind of displacement ratio to torque. Remind yourself we don't have a high rev-limit so we need a healthy dose of torque to make decent power. Remember our engine was lifted from a Fit... and, while it punches well above it's class... it's still a tiny engine. Manny Pacquiao may wrecked flyweight to welterweight but that doesn't mean he'd of stood a chance against the Klitschkos. If you want a heavyweight i4 before you've even bought the car... I'd pass on an Si. CTR or, like @amirza786 said... some other low-cost used option. Blowing the engine out of a cheaper old car by doing a 95% reliable budget-build and being able to source a cheap used motor if you're in the 5% makes more sense to me by a long-shot... especially if that car is a proven performer.

I myself am interested in a 27WON W1 though and their product is a great bang-for-the-buck... but I've had my car for about 2 years now and am very much a "mod over a long period of time and enjoy the journey" kind of guy... so I guess I can better rationalize it.

I feel like we're getting through the feeling out period with this engine and the honeymoon is over. It's good... but I don't think it's 350+ WHP, 400 ft-lbs on stock internals good... not on a not-budget build starting off w/a brand new car w/a tiny little engine.

 

[Szn]

Nah. These responses "get a CTR or mustang like everyone else. It's everything you want right off the lot!" amazes me. If everyone thought like that there would be no aftermarket, there would be no performance parts. There would be no innovation... Sure the 1.5L may be limited, but It's not impossible. Some things may not make sense to a lot of you, such as buying a new car to mod it rather than getting a cookie-cutter off the lot or an older used car, and that's OK. It's not meant for everyone. Some people want just to buy a car and drive it. That's it. But you see so many of the same ole' cars driving around. Wouldn't it be sweet to stand out? Sure going the 300+whp Si route may involve a generous amount of trial and error, both of which could be more expensive than what I've previously planned, but think of it as a piece of art. It's different. That's what makes it fun, and it's what keeps this hobby exciting.

Now if everyone's engine was blowing after 300+ and I still wanted to try and challenge that, I agree, that would be extremely unwise. However, there are many cars running in that power range that aren't running into issues. How long will they be issue free? Ten thousand more miles? A hundred thousand? Who knows. But seeing that it's capable is what intrigues me to go on with this build.

Not knocking any lads here, we all share the same community, and a community is nothing without an understanding.

 

[kshawn]

Eman spent more than that, and he did severything himself accept the tune

I asked @kshawn what he spent on his build awhile back, and he can correct me if my memory isn't serving me right, but I think he told me $8k plus, and I don't think he was making near 350 WHP

About 15 now. But i will say, a built engine isn't as much as you think. You can stay under 4k and get a pretty robust built block.

Had to order a new a new OEM block and crank.
Aftermarket rods, pistons.
Bore and cylinder support system.

All under 4k. But I still need to pay the shop doing the swap. If I didn't have to order a new block and crank it would be even cheaper.

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