2018 SI - Upgrade Components or Just Tweeters?

[Lagos]

I recently started to upgrade the audio system in my SI. So far I have replaced the center channel to the Jl Audio C2-350x and installed a Rockford Fosgate P300-10T sub in the trunk. I'm looking to improve the door speakers next. My original plan was to go with the JL C2-650 components since that's what I went with for the center channel, but after doing some research on this forum, I see that people have had some mixed results with the components sometimes sounding worse than stock.

Just wanted to get some feedback from others who have done their components? Should I stick with the original plan or just pick up a set of C2-075ct 0.75" Tweeters and leave the door woofers stock? Are there better brands to consider ?

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[whataboutism]

My gut feeling is that the front door tweeters are totally unacceptable and should be the first thing to go. I'm putting in Focal ISS 165 tweets but I don't know how well that will work with a JL C2 350x. I have the JL laying around, though. Maybe I should test them before I install in the car just to see.

 

[Lagos]

Keep me updated with how it turns out!

 

[silverblip]

 

[whataboutism]

Keep me updated with how it turns out!

Update: I put in Polk db1001 tweeters because I did not see an easy way to dremel the trim ring that the focal ISS 165s tweeters would have to sit in. The polk tweeters are $50 nicer than the stock tweeters. This is what I would of expected from manufacturer "premium" tweeters. Not perfect, but not completely defective. The tweeter situation is acceptable now and the polks were an easy install and look good. After messing with the treble/bass/mid equalizer in the stock 2017 touring, I was able to get 1khz to 12khz to be +/- 4db relative to the median of the rest of the system response.

The next problem is the mid-range. There is a -12 db pit at 190 hz that is 200 hz wide and another -10 dip at 800 hz that is 300 hz wide. The stock door woofers and dash speaker are not quality with the 2017 Touring amp's processing. I will remeasure after I put in the C2-350 dash.

 

[Lagos]

How are you measuring signal response? Do you have a dedicated spectrum analyzer?
I have been using an Android app called Audizr to check my frequency response while playing pink noise. Seems to work pretty well.

 

[JT Si]

Update: I put in Polk db1001 tweeters because I did not see an easy way to dremel the trim ring that the focal ISS 165s tweeters would have to sit in.

That's disappointing to hear. I was considering picking up the Focal ISS 165 for my Si. Can you elaborate more on the issue? Was there no way to remove the stock trim ring and use the provided focal Tweeter cover?

 

[Lagos]

Just wanted to give you guys an update...

I consulted with Crutchfield and based on their recommendation I went with Infinity Reference components, due to them being know to work well with a factory amp.
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_108R6530CM/Infinity-Reference-REF-6530cx.html

It's a substantial difference in clarity and sound quality over the stock speakers. The tweeters are nice and smooth sounding and there is just a lot more detail in the mid to high range. Sound output is the same or maybe slightly louder than the stock speakers. I wired these directly and did not use the supplied crossover as from my understanding the SI has a factory amp with its own filtering.

I also used this foam during the install:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B076MM4DJV/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The only down side was with the tweeter install. I had to do some cutting of the adapter brackets that they supply to make things work. I got a nice clean install, but the tweeters stick out more than the factory ones did. Not really a big deal, just something to be aware of.

 

[Vrait]

Just wanted to give you guys an update...

I consulted with Crutchfield and based on their recommendation I went with Infinity Reference components, due to them being know to work well with a factory amp.
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_108R6530CM/Infinity-Reference-REF-6530cx.html

It's a substantial difference in clarity and sound quality over the stock speakers. The tweeters are nice and smooth sounding and there is just a lot more detail in the mid to high range. Sound output is the same or maybe slightly louder than the stock speakers. I wired these directly and did not use the supplied crossover as from my understanding the SI has a factory amp with its own filtering.

I also used this foam during the install:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B076MM4DJV/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The only down side was with the tweeter install. I had to do some cutting of the adapter brackets that they supply to make things work. I got a nice clean install, but the tweeters stick out more than the factory ones did. Not really a big deal, just something to be aware of.

If I order the first link it includes everything I would need?
And is it worth it with the rest of the system kept stock?
I plan on adding dynamat to the car at the same time.

 

[Lagos]

If I order the first link it includes everything I would need?
And is it worth it with the rest of the system kept stock?
I plan on adding dynamat to the car at the same time.

The component kit gives you everything you need.
The speaks add a lot more clarity over what you get from the factory and seem to work well with the stock amp. Just keep in mind that the biggest upgrade you can make is to add a subwoofer. So it might be good to do that as the first audio mod. Here is the woofer I went with.

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_575P3...xi6bm0z0XyKfaDlwRUqEyJ8n93iv850AaAsXyEALw_wcB

 

[whataboutism]

How are you measuring signal response? Do you have a dedicated spectrum analyzer?
I have been using an Android app called Audizr to check my frequency response while playing pink
noise. Seems to work pretty well.

I am using the equivalent tool for iOS called AudioTools with the LARSA plugin. It is fine for analyzing from 100 to 10 khz which is where all of the huge midrange problems are. I am getting psyched up to play an REW chirp off of a USB stick and see if I can come up with a digital filter that will null out the weird amplifier DSP for MP3 files.

That's disappointing to hear. I was considering picking up the Focal ISS 165 for my Si. Can you elaborate more on the issue? Was there no way to remove the stock trim ring and use the provided focal Tweeter cover?

My problem with the ISS 165 tweeter is that if I dremel the trim-ring from the stock tweeter, I would have to remove a lot of material from the trim ring inside as well as most of the structural support of the trim ring. Further, unless my hand is perfectly calibrated, I'm probably not going to get an evenly-circular inner edge that touches the tweeter grill in an aesthetically pleasing way. I would agree that the focal tweeter is probably much nicer than the polk tweeter.

However, the DSP curve in the touring is absolute hot-trash and would wreck both the polk and ISS tweeters. The door woofer dives off a clif around 800 hz so to smooth things out between the failing woofer and the beginning of the tweeter and to deal with the tweeter curve rising painfully above 7khz, you have to turn the treble down to avoid nausea. And when you turn the treble down, you start to loose the 3 to 5 khz. Basically, there is no way any tweeter is going to sound good so the logical response is to just turn it off.

 

[quality_sound]

Crutchfield will tell you what they think will physically fit. It has nothing to do with "compatibility" with the OEM amp. I would also HIGHLY discourage anyone from buying speakers you haven't heard, preferably in a similar car instead of a soundboard. The dip at 190Hz is cancellation caused by the car and there's not much you can do about it. The dip at 800Hz is reflections off of the dash. If you run a 3-way front stage then this won't be an issue because they'll only be playing up for 25Hz or so.

 

[Lagos]

Crutchfield will tell you what they think will physically fit. It has nothing to do with "compatibility" with the OEM amp. I would also HIGHLY discourage anyone from buying speakers you haven't heard, preferably in a similar car instead of a soundboard. The dip at 190Hz is cancellation caused by the car and there's not much you can do about it. The dip at 800Hz is reflections off of the dash. If you run a 3-way front stage then this won't be an issue because they'll only be playing up for 25Hz or so.

The speakers are well suited to be used with a factory amp due to their 3ohm impedance. Watch this video where they go into a more detailed explanation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYV5qws9d3o&t

 

[quality_sound]

The speakers are well suited to be used with a factory amp due to their 3ohm impedance. Watch this video where they go into a more detailed explanation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYV5qws9d3o&t

Changing the speakers to a 4-ohm driver will cost you less than 1dB of output but you'll have more headroom. It's not a big deal.

 

[Fountainhead]

I put in Polk dubs for now and they’re smoother than the factory aluminum tweeters that resonate at 2-4K so badly I couldn’t bear it.
I would kill for an equalizer add on that would work on iOS devices... otherwise I’m gonna have to curve it and hopefully add a passive network to the front tweeters to tame the factory boost around the 2-4K area. Changing to silk dome teeeters did help a lot though.

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