2017 Si Driving Impressions and review - Turbo lag?

Psy-q

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Hello All,

I work in sales at a Honda Dealer. ( Not the crappy type, we take care of our reputation) I am a huge car guy and I especially like Japanese performance cars. I was very excited when I got a txt from my sales manager saying we got 7 Si Civics dropped off.

I daily drove 2009 FA5 and currently daily a 2014 BRZ Limited 6 speed manual. I am definitely not a "Chip your Ex-T and you got an Si, BRAH" type. I'd like to think I can appreciate all the little things JDM manufacturers do to separate regular models from their performance models.

I felt underwhelmed when I drove the 2017 Sport Hatch 1.5t 6 Speed. Felt like an economy under-square little thing with a tiny little turbo, didn't like it. Drove a 2015 Si back to back just to confirm and yeah, that was not good. Shifter especially left a lot to be desired, I don't understand why this forum thinks the EX-T powertrain is special, doesn't like to rev, rev hang, narrow power band. Nothing like the K or B series.

I was really excited to see that Honda changed that powertrain feel so much.

Here goes: 2017 Civic Si Coupe (Canadian trim, driven in Sport mode):

Good:

Looks:

I drove to work early to check it out and I was surprised how good it looks in the flesh. The wheels, the spoiler the oversized vents, the center exhaust - to me personally it looked really good. Looks low and wide, I like it. Interior is good with the black headliner and the seats.

Ergonomics:

Seats are awesome as they have always been since the 8th gen. I am 5 8, athletic build and felt very comfortable in it. Bolsters are aggressive but not as aggressive as 8th gen or my BRZ.

The shifter:

Much better than the unit in the Sport hatch, but not as good as the 8th gen or my BRZ. It is shorter and more "heavy". Feels the same as the 9th gen.

The Sound:

In sport mode it makes "PPSSSHH" blow off noises. I did not check the part diagrams but it sounds like they've added a vent to atmosphere blow of valve. Put a HUGE smile on my face. Exhaust is tame, tamer than 8th or 9 gen K engines. Only very slightly deeper than regular 1.5. The sound of the Turbo spool is AWESOME and is definitely present. That alone made the car much more fun than the EX-T.

Lack of rev hang:

Thank you Honda. It is still nowhere near the responsiveness of my FA20 86 Bore x 86 Stroke Square engine that is in my BRZ but the throttle is MUCH more responsive than 1.5 Manual regular Civic. It was good. Heel and toe and rev matching are awesome.

I was very wrong.

Limited Slip Diff:

If there are any of you out there debating between Ex-T and Si - go for the Si. The LSD is WORTH every penny. Through Canadian Snow, Rain, slush, mud my FA5 pulled like front wheels had teeth. Same here - all that torque and pulls really nice in turns. I don't think I'll ever have a car without a proper mechanical LSD.

The not so good:

In sport mode there was a significant amount of turbo lag. Maybe I need to re calibrate my senses from the NA BRZ motor that loves to rev and has awesome torque down low ( For a 2.0 liter Jap motor), but there was definite lag in Sport mode and after 6,000 RPM Power fell off a bit. It starts making power after 3k. Narrow window if you ask me.

Other than that it was very good - put a huge smile on face, which is opposite of what the 1.5t Manual Sport hatch did. Very very fun to drive package.

Please ask any questions. Thanks!

Honda Civic 10th gen 2017 Si Driving Impressions and review - Turbo lag? IMG_20170524_125722
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bikejog

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The not so good:

In sport mode there was a significant amount of turbo lag. Maybe I need to re calibrate my senses from the NA BRZ motor that loves to rev and has awesome torque down low ( For a 2.0 liter Jap motor), but there was definite lag in Sport mode and after 5,500 RPM Power fell off a bit. It starts making power after 3k. Narrow window if you ask me.
VTEC 2.0! :(
 

Pur3MotioN770

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VTEC 2.0! :(
You mentioned heel and toe being awesome. Did you notice any difference in the positioning of the pedals, versus the Sport, as many have said that it's hard to heel and toe in the sport due to the positioning of the pedals.
 


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Psy-q

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You mentioned heel and toe being awesome. Did you notice any difference in the positioning of the pedals, versus the Sport, as many have said that it's hard to heel and toe in the sport due to the positioning of the pedals.
Funny you ask that. I actually had a bit of trouble heel and toeing but I thought it is because the seating position is different from my BRZ and I just wasn't used to it.

Throttle is responsive for a smooth heel and toe and but the brake pedal is a bit too forward.
 

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Nice report thanks!

Here's a crazy Q that a 5'8 guy is going to struggle to answer... my biggest concern is me! I'm 6'4 and push 300. I had a 2016 Civic Touring as a loaner for a few days and found it cozy... and had tons of fun tossing it around. Didn't want to give it back. I kept telling myself it was a bit too small for long term comfort, but some of that was rationalizing since I'd have to give it back and go back to the boring Accord.

I know the official interior dimensions say the same headroom but I wonder if that's reality. Seemed like the touring's seat had a big pedestal to hold all the servos/motors for the power adjustments and such. Might the SI seats potentially sit a bit lower?
 
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Psy-q

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poor man's subaroo BRZ?
Not at all. BRZ is a race car with a slow ish engine to meet price bracket. Si is a souped up economy car. 2 different things entirely.

Funny, in Canada MSRP difference between the 2 cars is only about 1.5k CAD.
 
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Psy-q

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Nice report thanks!

Here's a crazy Q that a 5'8 guy is going to struggle to answer... my biggest concern is me! I'm 6'4 and push 300. I had a 2016 Civic Touring as a loaner for a few days and found it cozy... and had tons of fun tossing it around. Didn't want to give it back. I kept telling myself it was a bit too small for long term comfort, but some of that was rationalizing since I'd have to give it back and go back to the boring Accord.

I know the official interior dimensions say the same headroom but I wonder if that's reality. Seemed like the touring's seat had a big pedestal to hold all the servos/motors for the power adjustments and such. Might the SI seats potentially sit a bit lower?
Didn't seem any lower, but the heavy bolsters could be a concern for a larger person. Seats are very comfortable, though. Padding and all.

Edit:

It does seem to sit a bit lower that the TOURING Power seats, but only very slightly so. Quarter of an inch?
 
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xxxx1017

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From your description the power delivery seems similar to my 13 WRX, which I love. I feel like lag has a negative connotation but learning to keep the revs in the power band can be fun.
Thanks for the quick review!
 


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Psy-q

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From your description the power delivery seems similar to my 13 WRX, which I love. I feel like lag has a negative connotation but learning to keep the revs in the power band can be fun.
Thanks for the quick review!
I drove plenty of turbocharged cars and I agree. The lag adds to the character, cmon I drove a K20z for 2 years :D but I wish it would pull harder near the red line.
 

zroger73

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First of all, thank you very much for your personal observations and opinions.

Lack of rev hang:

Thank you Honda. It is still nowhere near the responsiveness of my FA20 86 Bore x 86 Stroke Square engine that is in my BRZ but the throttle is MUCH more responsive than 1.5 Manual regular Civic. It was good. Heel and toe and rev matching are awesome.
Can you expound on this? You labeled it, "lack of rev hang", but the terms "responsive", "heel and toe", and "rev matching" would be used to describe how quickly the engine revs in response to application of the throttle as opposed to how long it takes the revs to drop after pushing in the clutch (rev hang).

So, my question is: Does the Si have less rev hang than the non-Si?

Glossary of terms for non-performance drivers

Responsive - How quickly the engine speed increases when the accelerator pedal is depressed
Heal and toe - A technique used to increase engine speed for rev matching when downshifting and braking
Rev matching - A technique used to increase engine speed to match the next lower gear when downshifting
Rev hang - a slow or delayed decrease in engine speed after depressing the clutch before an upshift - can be caused by a heavy flywheel but is mostly a consequence of emissions control where the computer closes the throttle blade gradually once the accelerator pedal is completely released
 
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Psy-q

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So, my question is: Does the Si have less rev hang than the non-Si?
Yes. Very noticeably so. One of the main reasons I traded in my 2009 Si for a BRZ is the stupid rev hang.

The moment I pulled away from the lot I've noticed how nicely it drops revs compared to the older Drive by Wire K motors and the current 1.5t with stick.

P.S.:

I have to thank you personally for teaching me about the missing Ridge features in the US Models. I've actually closed a deal on a Ridgeline last month by telling the customer about all the little things that Canadians get and how the MSRP is about 15-20% cheaper after the CAD conversion.

Sucks for you guys though.
 
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Wizerud

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The shifter:

Much better than the unit in the Sport hatch, but not as good as the 8th gen or my BRZ. It is shorter and more "heavy". Feels the same as the 9th gen.
This is by far the most important thing for me. If it feels the same as the 9th gen, I'll be happy. Although I never noticed much difference going from five years with an 8th gen to a 9th gen, so... :)
 

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Awesome! A quick write up from someone who drove an 8th gen Si. I drive an FG2 now and its going to be my benchmark and it really sets the bar high for me because the whole car is packaged so well. I'm glad you think the shifter feel is similar to the 9th gen because I didn't mind it when i owned one for 2 years, but I do think the 8th gen shift feel is close to perfection(minus 2nd/3rd gear issue affected units). I am worried about the feeling of tapering power after 5500RPM like most factory turbo small displacement engine, it will take some re-calibrating of the senses coming from engines where power is limited down low but carries/pull all the way to redline. It seems like this car will make drivers feel all the feels a good sporting oriented car should make you feel! From the sound of the turbo spooling more audible, to the vent to atmosphere sound of the BoV, it all sounds like Honda packaged this car to stir up feelings!

Thank you very much for this!
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