2017 Honda Civic Si Prototype Debut - Q&A, Photos, Video

SpartanSi

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Of course they've been discouraging tuning. With the exception of some examples done up at SEMA, you never see Honda advocate or talk about aftermarket tuning. Why? It damages the brand of moving upmarket. why did they axe the RSX from Acura? Because of this very thing. Honda at least knows that the brand is still known for engines and performance cars, but they want to display these qualities in line with their preferred company image.
I don't disagree with what you are saying but, at the bare minimum, Honda should have made the Civic competitive with the Ford ST or VW GTI or WRX....offering the Si with a detuned 2.0T making between 220 and 260 hp would have made a great car for Anyone. Instead, Honda will turn up the boost on an engine that is at the top end of its reliable performance output......and when these cars start burning oil, blowing head gaskets and failing to meet emissions tests we will see whether Honda will be viewed as the same bulletproof engineering company as they are today. The Si is to Honda what the WRX is to Subaru......If Honda really did want to up market the Si, they should have improved the content on the vehicle while increasing both price and margins. Why not position it with content and detuned 2.0T engine at a price point and margin above the Touring? Instead, the Si will be positioned around the price point of the EX-L and miss on their target audience.
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s2kdriver80

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Well, a couple of indirect takeaways:

"Fastest Si ever" means this will be under 6.0, and likely close to 5.5. That's based on reported previous Si times, the lowest stock number I could find was 5.9.

This implies that the CTR will be under 5.0, the current CTR is showing 4.9-5.4, which may be a metric issue.
The quickest 0-60mph time I've seen for the Euro Mk9 FK2 CTR was 5.2 sec by Top Gear. 5.2 sec in a FWD car is impressive and I haven't seen a faster time by any stock FWD car.
 

SpartanSi

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I doubt damage to the brand was why the RSX was cut. I would imagine the fact that over its last 4 years the sales had dropped from a meager 30,000 to just shy of 17,000 played the bigger role. At 17,000 that would be 1300 produced in one month. This equates to 1.1 days of production a month. The model most likely could no longer produce a profit offsetting manufacturing and R&D costs. Not too mention a pattern shift in sales that pointed to a shrinking demographic. As a customer. I'm quite excited to see what the final product is. But I would be buying it because it is a ready made sport car. Not to mod.
Probably had more to do with the fact that it had a back seat that dwarfs felt cramped climbing into? The car was really limited to a two seater as the back seats were brutal and not really usable.
 

Shralper

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For those of you disappointed by the engine size, just keep in mind some of the factors Honda probably had to consider when making the decision:

1. Will the Si cannibalize on Type R sales?

2. If the 2.0L engine is used the cost will go up, potentially making the car unaffordable to the target market, and might prevent it from competing against certain cars like the Veloster Turbo, for example.

3. The 1.5L motor is extremely robust and capable of 300 hp (durability tested to this amount, so we've heard). Same goes for the manual transmission. There is more than enough headroom for the Si to use that motor. Even if the Si only has about 215 hp it will still feel quite a bit faster than the previous generation one, due to the huge swell of torque the turbo motor generates. We just purchased a 1.5T manual transmission sedan and I can tell you it feels quick, even though it is only rated at around 174 hp.
The GTI, Focus ST, and WRX all have 2.0T. They are still affordable. These are the cars Honda should have been targeting.

What is a Veloster Turbo?? /sarc

This whole thing just makes me sick after waiting for over a year. I'm not really surprised though.

Did Honda have any explanation why they didn't use the 2.0T? Anyone?
 

Shralper

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Maybe they were trying to keep the high-revving character of the Si going with this choice, but I wanted them to talk about that to diffuse the obvious immediate disappointment many people would feel.
I'm not an engineer or an expert on the matter, but as I understand it, Turbo engines simply can't provide the high end power like a NA engine. The peak power always comes on low, when the turbo boost first hits, then wanes from there. Anyone want to expound on this topic?
 


LoveToDrive

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I'm not an engineer or an expert on the matter, but as I understand it, Turbo engines simply can't provide the high end power like a NA engine. The peak power always comes on low, when the turbo boost first hits, then wanes from there. Anyone want to expound on this topic?
I don't know either...., but is that where VTEC come in?
 

dblshock

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[QUOTE="rezlab, post: 120175, member:
Furthermore, don't forget about poor Acura. My prediction is that Honda will provide this platform with a proper automatic DCT transmission, and the 2.0 liter turbo with 260 hp many are looking for - but you are going to need to pay extra for these pleasures - in an Acura. Am I right here?.
If be guessing along side you. The 2.0 will most likely be fitted in the new ILX with a turbo in the 240 range for 2018 models.[/QUOTE]

+1
 

DrwMDvs

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OFFICIAL HONDA PRESS RELEASE:

The shimmering Rallye Red Pearl Civic Si Prototype features a full Factory Performance (HFP) aero kit, including front and rear splitters and rear spoiler, plus a center-mounted polygonal exhaust finisher and 19-inch 235/35Y high-performance tires mounted on HFP 19 x 8J 10-spoke forged aluminum alloy wheels.
The way I see this context is the HFP kit is everything we are seeing. The HFP kit IS the wing, it is the front black chin spoiler at the very bottom of the front bumper, it is the rear black bumper trim that starts on the ends and goes up and over the exhaust. I bet that part is NOT in the final production model, but offered as HFP. That black part on the rear would be considered the splitter. The bumpers themselves will remain on the final design, but not the HFP additions seen below:

2017-Honda-Civic-Si-Prototype-6.jpg


The 2017 Civic Si Coupe and Si Sedan will be powered by a high-performance, high-torque 1.5-liter, directed-injected and turbocharged DOHC in-line 4-cylinder engine with dual variable cam timing (dual VTC)...
I see this as the end of VTEC as we know it. VTEC is oldddd technology. It's good, but old. VTC is much better, as it's truly variable based on what the ecu sees from it's sensors. Especially with having it both on the intake and exhaust cams (dual VTC). Bye Bye VTEC.

The Civic Si Coupe and Si Sedan will launch next year as the latest additions to the 10th-generation Honda Civic lineup, joining the Civic Sedan, Civic Coupe and just-launched Civic Hatchback. The rollout of the 10th-gen Civic lineup will be completed with the launch of the new track-ready Civic Type-R next year.
We'll see the Si's first according to this, and that's what I was thinking anyways. I still say March, as that's in the middle of the type R launch, probably in late May or June.

This is just my predictions. I put my name on a 'list' for the sedan Si before the release, but this hasn't given me any confidence...
 

dblshock

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if you look in your 2016 owners manual there's a section on paddle shift like DCT, I thought was probably for a hatch but no.
 


thedailyrey

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I was honestly hoping that Honda would have a de-tuned Type R 2.0T for the Civic Si with 220-230hp, the next ILX to have a slightly upgraded 2.0T engine with 250hp, and Honda Fit Si with the Civic Hatchback Sport's 1.5T with 180hp.

I feel that this lineup would have made Honda very competitive in the sport compact segment but with the Civic Si's engine now unveiled,

:banghead::cry:


I'm still hoping for Honda to pull a bait and switch on us, switching the 1.5T for the 2.0T last minute. Probably won't happen though, lol.
 

Newflyer3

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if you look in your 2016 owners manual there's a section on paddle shift like DCT, I thought was probably for a hatch but no.
Canadian Turbo coupes have paddle shifters with no L mode so don't you dare think this is an indicator of an automatic option with this car. It's been claimed via multiple channels that it's 6MT only end of story.
 

Newflyer3

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I was honestly hoping that Honda would have a de-tuned Type R 2.0T for the Civic Si with 220-230hp, the next ILX to have a slightly upgraded 2.0T engine with 250hp, and Honda Fit Si with the Civic Hatchback Sport's 1.5T with 180hp.

I feel that this lineup would have made Honda very competitive in the sport compact segment but with the Civic Si's engine now unveiled,

:banghead::cry:


I'm still hoping for Honda to pull a bait and switch on us, switching the 1.5T for the 2.0T last minute. Probably won't happen though, lol.
They're gonna make all those models, the initial enthusiasts will buy them which accounts for like 5 of us, then sales will hit the shitter after the early adopters like the BRZ-FRS twins.
 

Shralper

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I'm remaining optimistic and hoping that they aren't referring to the 1.5t in its current form. Offering an Si without VTEC would be nothing short of idiocy. Hopefully, for the enthusiasts' and for Si sales' sake they use this next year to announce whether or not this is just a flash tuned version of the current 1.5 or something a little more respectable. I'd be willing to accept a 1.5t vtec to avoid taking sales from the Type R, however everything about this seems like a terrible decision on the part of Honda.
I'm no engine expert but from what I've read online, turbos and VTEC are polar opposites when it comes to engine performance. It's not physically possible to get the best of both worlds, i.e., low end torque from the turbo and high end power from the VTEC. Honda only uses VTC in order to regulate airflow for the turbo, not to give the high end boost of VTEC we are all familiar with. So whether they use VTC or VTEC isn't really relevant. Btw, VTEC was created precisely as an alternative to a turbo.

Again, experts on the matter please expound. I know I've read at length on this topic online from reputable sources.
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