1600 miles, gear grinding a regular issue

WindJunkie

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Greetings

I bought my CTR exactly one month ago and have put 1600 miles on it. In the 1600 miles, I've grinded gears 3 times, twice going from first to second, and once from second to third. I've also twice had issues getting the car into reverse on a cold engine (I live in FL and garage keep my CTR so its not like the car is sitting out in blizzard conditions).

Before anyone suggests I'm inexperienced or that I am shifting wrong - I've only owned manual transmission cars my entire life. I estimate that I've driven nearly 200,000 miles on stick shift cars (lots of traffic/start and stops here in FL, so I'm very familiar with using the clutch), mainly between a 2008 Civic LX and a 2015 Civic Si. On my prior two Civics, I honestly don't believe I ever grinded gears. Having virtually no issues grinding gears in on my prior two Civics, It seems to me that the '15 Si gearbox was more forgiving, but the CTR has much more power and therefore I really should expect a more thorough-shifting clutch and gearbox.

It is indeed possible this issue could be user error (my own fault), and I need more time to learn the gear box, but that wasn't the case with my last two Civics which I rolled off the Honda dealer brand new like my CTR. It also never came up in the prior 200k miles I've driven on stick shifts in the last 12 years.

If you were in my shoes, what would you do? Continuous grinding like this has to cause long-term damage I imagine. With 1600 miles and 3 grinds on the book, I'm worried what will happen if this continues.

Are any other CTR owners having gear grind issues? I hate to think its a flaw on Honda so for now I'm really focusing on my shifting technique when I drive. If it continues however I'm not sure what I'll do next (visit the dealer? what would they even do...)

Thanks for your input

Edit: clarifying my position on CTR gearbox vs. my previous experience with Si
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krees

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I'd take it to the dealer... preferably to a dealer you trust. I've read folks with consistent grinds getting new transmissions so I don't think the issue is you because there are several folks complaining of the same.
 

scottjua

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There's a huge thread here and facebook groups documenting the issue. Even plenty of youtube videos showing it. Get a video of yours doing it and you'll have that in stone as evidence when they can't replicate the issue.

Honda seems to only be changing the fluid in most cases, which in my opinion is NOT the fix. Even replacing the transmission doesn't seem to be 100% the fix.

Research "clutch delay valve"... I believe this to be the real fix, as others have documented.
 


lorenkb

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If you're comfortable working on your car, check the transmission fluid level. You're looking for the bolt on the side (A), which is the level check plug. The transmission should be filled to the point where fluid is ready to poor out of the level check hole with that bolt removed.

Honda Civic 10th gen 1600 miles, gear grinding a regular issue 9479_3.0_enu_15115394_2.0_dis
 

wildbilly32

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So 1600 miles and only 3 issues(not counting the reverse deal)? How many times do you estimate that you performed "clean" shift maneuvers of the same shift movements? My guess is it will not be a high failure percentage. Was this at a high rpm level when occurred...as in running up through the gears in a spirited manner or just normal driving? While I have not experienced this I have lower mileage on my car. I have found the stock shift knob to be a little slippery if not grasped firmly and I have been driving stick shift cars for over 50 years. Just wondering...
 
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WindJunkie

WindJunkie

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So 1600 miles and only 3 issues(not counting the reverse deal)? How many times do you estimate that you performed "clean" shift maneuvers of the same shift movements? My guess is it will not be a high failure percentage. Was this at a high rpm level when occurred...as in running up through the gears in a spirited manner or just normal driving? While I have not experienced this I have lower mileage on my car. I have found the stock shift knob to be a little slippery if not grasped firmly and I have been driving stick shift cars for over 50 years. Just wondering...
Yeah, it is indeed not regularly happening so you are correct in that the majority of shifts are fine but alarming to me at 1600 miles to have experienced it three times. I agree that it very well could be me not used to the gearbox/bad grip on the aluminum knob which is indeed larger than my prior '15 Si. Grinding did occur when driving in a spirited manner, when shifting at 5-6k RPM and getting on the throttle firmly. Today I emphasized some aggressive shifts and had no grinding, so I'm thinking it must be user error unless it spurs up again or continues to happen.

check the transmission fluid
Thanks, will do, if low I'll report back
 

mdm24

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Greetings

I bought my CTR exactly one month ago and have put 1600 miles on it. In the 1600 miles, I've grinded gears 3 times, twice going from first to second, and once from second to third. I've also twice had issues getting the car into reverse on a cold engine (I live in FL and garage keep my CTR so its not like the car is sitting out in blizzard conditions).

Before anyone suggests I'm inexperienced or that I am shifting wrong - I've only owned manual transmission cars my entire life. I estimate that I've driven nearly 200,000 miles on stick shift cars (lots of traffic/start and stops here in FL, so I'm very familiar with using the clutch), mainly between a 2008 Civic LX and a 2015 Civic Si. On my prior two Civics, I honestly don't believe I ever grinded gears. Having virtually no issues grinding gears in on my prior two Civics, I have to say I am a bit let down by the CTRs gear box. I'm starting to think my 2015 Si gear box was actually a lot easier to work with.

It is indeed possible this issue could be user error (my own fault), and I need more time to learn the gear box, but that wasn't the case with my last two Civics which I rolled off the Honda dealer brand new like my CTR. It also never came up in the prior 200k miles I've driven on stick shifts in the last 12 years.

If you were in my shoes, what would you do? Continuous grinding like this has to cause long-term damage I imagine. With 1600 miles and 3 grinds on the book, I'm worried what will happen if this continues.

Are any other CTR owners having gear grind issues? I hate to think its a flaw on Honda so for now I'm really focusing on my shifting technique when I drive. If it continues however I'm not sure what I'll do next (visit the dealer? what would they even do...)

Thanks for your input
I have a new one too and I’ve done it twice. I thought it was me just getting used to the new shifter/clutch which both require quite a bit more effort than the mk8 Golf R I was coming from.
Seems like the effort required for the 1-2 shift is a little inconsistent and that has caught me off guard. I also have noticed more effort required to get it into reverse when cold. Curious to hear what your dealership says keep us posted.
 
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WindJunkie

WindJunkie

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Thanks all for feedback. I actually didn't contact the dealer yet. I still might, but I've decided I want to drive another 1500 miles or so before I take that route. A few considerations I've thought of in addition to the feedback I got here:

  • has caught me off guard
    Same with me in terms of being caught off guard while still getting a feel for shifting. I've been emphasizing my shifting a lot more since the last grind. I think that my '15 Si clutch and gearbox in general was a bit more forgiving. That said, the CTR is no Si and has a lot more power; I really should expect the need to shift in a more ardent fashion, I don't think I was considering this as much when I first picked it up new.

  • The car is still somewhat in the break-in period at 1600 miles. I think the manual says 700 miles before strongly accelerating and hard braking, but the gearbox has more highway miles than city at this point so it gives me an even greater reason to emphasize the shifting in high RPMs when getting on the acceleration firmly.

  • I can't seem to replicate the issue so it's very reasonable at this point to believe it's my own mishandling. I'll obviously be more alarmed if it continues to happen as I'm really emphasizing my shifting
I'll check the transmission fluid level this weekend for the heck of it too. In general I really want to believe it's user error but if it persist more I'll take the route of contacting the dealer. 1600 miles is still pretty early but will update this thread if it continues and I contact the dealer.






 
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gee-dubR32

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Ive been driving MT cars for many years. My last manual was a Golf R. With the CTR, I’ve had similar issues as OP happen a small number of times. I’ve chalked it up to user error and corrected my shifts. They all happened early (after break) in period when I was engaged in spirited driving. High RPM + too rapid shift from first to second = grind. Now I don’t rev as high in first or I give the rpm’s a hair more time to drop (or both) before engaging second gear. Also, there have been a couple of times I’ve made a bad shift driving normally due to slight distraction affecting shift engagement or poor driving position. Again user error. I’m human not an automatic transmission after all. Every time it hurt (figuratively) but those painful moments helped me focus on correctly shifting this gearbox which is an absolute joy.
 

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Ive been driving MT cars for many years. My last manual was a Golf R. With the CTR, I’ve had similar issues as OP happen a small number of times. I’ve chalked it up to user error and corrected my shifts. They all happened early (after break) in period when I was engaged in spirited driving. High RPM + too rapid shift from first to second = grind. Now I don’t rev as high in first or I give the rpm’s a hair more time to drop (or both) before engaging second gear. Also, there have been a couple of times I’ve made a bad shift driving normally due to slight distraction affecting shift engagement or poor driving position. Again user error. I’m human not an automatic transmission after all. Every time it hurt (figuratively) but those painful moments helped me focus on correctly shifting this gearbox which is an absolute joy.
I've done the same thing as far as delaying my 1st to 2nd shift due to grinds but I don't think this is a good fix. The car should be able to be shifted faster.
 
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WindJunkie

WindJunkie

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Better safe than sorry.
Very interesting, thank you for sharing. If there is any truth in that thread, this is my problem:

avoid “speed shifting” and make sure to always depress and hold the clutch pedal to the floor until gear changes are completed.

Each instance of the grinding occurred when aggressively shifting at high RPMs. I think I need to be more deliberate in my shifting but also take it a bit easier if I can help it until the break in is closer to say, 4-5k miles. This also speaks to my thought of my prior Si clutch being more forgiving, but at the same time, I traded it in with 60k miles, so the clutch and syncros were well broken-in at that point.

Thanks again for sharing
 

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Grinding transmission gears when combined with a high revving honda engine have always been the norm. Three grinding shifts in 1600 miles isn't terrible. I'm not even sure taking it to the dealership will matter. They won't be able to replicate it and they'll just say it was driver error.

That being said, I'm surprised no one has mentioned the God fluid that Honda/Acura enthusiasts have relied on for two decades now to solve their gear grinding issues- AC Delco Synchromesh Friction Modified (formerly known as GM Synchromesh Friction Modified) transmission fluid.

I heard that Honda updated their tranny fluid a few years ago, but it still seems to suck. GMSMFM was the only reliable solution, across any and every platform- manual TLs, s2000s, RSXs, Civics, Integras, etc.

Not sure if anyone has tried GMSMFM yet, but it's high on my list of things to do.
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