1.5 turbo - answer to what engine oil grades are allowed!

  1. un hombre

    un hombre Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2017
    Posts:
    171
    Thanked:
    83
    Location:
    Ireland
    Car(s):
    2017 Honda Civic 1.5 Sport+GT White
    #1 un hombre, May 23, 2017
    Last edited: May 23, 2017
    Hi all,

    As you know, 1.5 turbo is Honda's really international model - it is used in USA, Canada, Asia, Europe, Australia. The technology is the same for all markets, so in order to answer the question what oil grades you can really use - it is a good idea to see what grades are allowed in instruction manuals for other markets.

    So let's look at the manual for Europe. Europe has one of the most strict oil standards - that is why we change oil here (depending on car) anywhere from 10k miles and above. And what does the manual say for UK/Europe? Picture attached.

    image1.PNG

    The most important information is in the frame and order represents from most preferred oil grade to least preferred.

    1) Genuine Honda Motor oil (note below, that if you decide to use 0w-20 than you should use Honda Engine oil Type 2.0)
    2) Second most preferred is A3 standard, which is oil standard for performance cars (especially turbo, strained, most protection for engine),
    3) Third most preferred is A5 standard, which is oil standard for pure economy (most important aspect is eco, not engine protection).

    What does the above mean? It means, that if you don't want to use 0w-20, you can use engine oil of standard A3 or as least preferred, A5. But wait a minute, A3 or A5 is just a protection/eco standard, there is nothing mentioned about viscosity?? Well, if viscosity is not mentioned than it means, that you can (and you should) choose whatever viscosity you wish - depending on your environment (temperatures etc)!

    The sentence below the frame says it all: "Use a Genuine Honda Motor oil or another commercial engine oil of suitable viscosity for the ambient temperature as shown".

    I know what you are thinking, the picture only shows 0w-20 so it means that you should only use this one, right? Wrong!
    "... of suitable viscosity for the ambient temperature as shown". Suitable viscosity is not the same for Siberia in Russia, as the one for Italy, Florida, Texas or other! In fact, 0w20 would be a great oil for North Pole! Another sentence says it all:

    "0w-20 oil is formulated to improve fuel economy." Nothing more and nothing less! It is not formulated to improve engine protection, but improve economy. The higher the engine economy, the lower the quality of oil film on engine parts and worse protection. In fact, anything xw30 are economy oils as well, but protect the engine better than 0w-20...

    0w-20 will be perfectly fine if you want to use this car as economy driver - no redlining, no high rpm and shifting gears in "green" markers as dashboard says.

    The last sentence can be misleading and interpreted differently, but it says, that if Original Honda oil type 2.0 (which is Honda's 0w-20 for Europe) is not available, you can alternatively use 0/5w-30. Nowhere in the instruction manual it says, that you should only use 0w20 and nothing else! It says here, that if you don't have original 0w-20, that you can alternatively use 5w-30 or 0w-30 (for example you can top up 0w-20 with 0/5w-30 if the former is not around)! But it does not say that only those 3 grades of oil are allowed and it does not say that 0w-20 is the only grade allowed!

    You were bashing here dblshock guy, when he started the thread about putting 5w30 and thicker oils. Well, he was right in all aspects, but one... The 5w30 oil grades would do nothing to his engine, but reduce only the economy. In fact, this oil would protect this engine more if he was bashing it to redline.
    The only mistake he made was putting some 2-stroke oil into petrol... This is only done to diesels, you don't put this stuff into petrols... Because of this stuff, his petrol probably did not burn properly and polluted the oil sump and diluted the oil.

    Anyway, there you go guys. I know American manual may say differently but just to let you know - 0w-20 is not the only oil grade allowed for those engines on different markets! They did not design this engine for 0w-20 only, they may have designed it so that it does not get excessively worn with an engine oil so thin.

    In fact, I seriously doubt that the manual for Australia recommends 0w-20 and believe me, they don't have some "extra" version of 1.5 turbo engine there...
     
    civicls, Quicksipper, Nessism and 4 others thanked this.
  2. fitter_here

    fitter_here Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2016
    Posts:
    273
    Thanked:
    94
    Location:
    Ste-Anne-des-Plaines, Quebec, Canada
    Car(s):
    Civic LX 2016 Sedan
    You'r right
    look here: https://hondakarma.com/guides/honda-civic-lubricants-and-fluids.1815/
     
  3. sirwired

    sirwired New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2017
    Posts:
    4
    Thanked:
    2
    Location:
    Raleigh, NC
    Car(s):
    2017 CR-V
    "As shown" means what exactly it says; use what it says to use. Honda has used the same basic "as shown" text on which viscosity to use as long as I can remember, no matter how many different oil weights are listed. (It means they just have to change the chart for each geography as needed, and can leave the text alone; makes less work for localization) What doesn't it say? It doesn't say things like "Use 5W-30 if you think the weather's hot." or "We only really meant 0W-20 for where it gets super-duper cold, but kinda-sorta forgot to mention that on the temperature chart."

    And ""0w-20 oil is formulated to improve fuel economy." Nothing more and nothing less!" doesn't exactly square with your subsequent statement that "The higher the engine economy, the lower the quality of oil film on engine parts and worse protection." If it means "nothing more" than improved economy, where does the statement that it will have a lower quality oil film come from?

    I'm not saying 5W-30 will destroy your car, just that you are reading things into the text that aren't there.
     
    Quicksipper thanked this.
  4. OP
    un hombre

    un hombre Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2017
    Posts:
    171
    Thanked:
    83
    Location:
    Ireland
    Car(s):
    2017 Honda Civic 1.5 Sport+GT White
    #4 un hombre, May 24, 2017
    Last edited: May 24, 2017
    It does not have to say in the manual, that 0w-20 gives worse protection than anything else. If you wanted to protect your engine in a race car, you would have used for example 15w-50. If you want lowest possible friction at the cost of lower oil film strength at high temperatures, use 0w-20. You don't need to know that, as a end user, but your mechanic does. Just ask. Study a bit about oils. Last 10-20 years of oil development are only about eco, not protection... In fact, 0w-20 is also used in race cars to increase performance, but only for short runs or after the race, the engine may need a rebuild...

    When Honda says use suitable viscosity it means suitable viscosity. 0w-20 is not catch all cases universal oil for all climates (for protection), it is an eco oil that gives you some proetection assuming you drive your Honda like a granny. No high rpms, low eco speeds!
    This oil is not intended for spirited driving, if you don't care about eco but protection at higher speeds and rpms, 0/5w30 is a must.

    I only showed that this engine will work fine on other viscosities, especially 0/5w30 and this viscosity is a better compromise between economy and protection.

    Just a food for thought: https://ultimatesyntheticoil.com/ford-5w20/ (Disregard the "in your face" specific brand ads and just digest the theory, do your own checks on history and use common sense)
     
    ChrisSi and MacKharoni thanked this.
  5. hawk02

    hawk02 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2016
    Posts:
    1,235
    Thanked:
    573
    Location:
    Far away
    Car(s):
    2017 Civic Si Coupe
    Well 400,000 miles with the Ea filter staying with 0w20 sounds pretty damn good, I will be doing my 1st oil change on my 17 HB Sport using Amsoil SS 0w20 and their filter(purchased a month ago). For a 200 hp motor I think it will be fine, if I was to go the extreme Ktuner route and push this engine to it's limit as many here are doing THEN a switch may be a good idea, for me with a base +6psi Hondata tune SS in the proper grade will work for longer than I will have the car.
     
  6. Snoopyslr

    Snoopyslr Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2016
    Posts:
    1,856
    Thanked:
    2,091
    Occupation:
    CAD Designer @ General Motors
    Location:
    Fenton, Michigan
    First Name:
    John
    Car(s):
    2016 Honda Civic EX-T, 2003 Subaru Impreza WRX
    Please stop making oil threads with cut/paste things from other sites. Please use real data, like an oil change analysis, so we can not have all the misinformation and BS floating around. Unless you have ACTUAL proof that a certain oil is better, please don't recommend an oil.

    Here is my factory oil with 10,000 miles on it. Maintenance Minder said my oil had 15% oil left left.
    I047301-OILANA75020139.pdf
    Currently running AMSOIL SS 0w-20 with Honda Filter. I'm going to run this to 10,000 as well so I can have an apples to apples comparison, but after this I will be changing every 6k (possibly 8k depending on what next report looks like).
     

    Attached Files:

    CW0731, krychek57, Civics4Ever and 2 others thanked this.
  7. OP
    un hombre

    un hombre Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2017
    Posts:
    171
    Thanked:
    83
    Location:
    Ireland
    Car(s):
    2017 Honda Civic 1.5 Sport+GT White
    #7 un hombre, May 24, 2017
    Last edited: May 24, 2017
    I am not making threads with cut/paste information, only from the instruction manual so get your facts straight. The only link I provide is in the 4th post, just to give others food for thought.

    This thread is to prove one thing only - you can use different oils than 0w-20, this engine can run other viscosities and will not blow up and not deteriorate, if you use 5w-30. Period.

    Another thing I brought up is that 0/5w-30 protects engine better than 0w-20 at more spirited driving, higher engine and environment temperatures. There is lots of proof on that as well so look around and find it yourself. Period.

    Your oil analysis does not prove anything. It does not show that it would be better/worse protected by 0/5w-30, nor it does show 0w-20 will extensively waer your engine - because it will not.
     
  8. Snoopyslr

    Snoopyslr Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2016
    Posts:
    1,856
    Thanked:
    2,091
    Occupation:
    CAD Designer @ General Motors
    Location:
    Fenton, Michigan
    First Name:
    John
    Car(s):
    2016 Honda Civic EX-T, 2003 Subaru Impreza WRX
    Your words do not prove anything.

    My analysis on the other hand proves that following the MM is far too long between oil change intervals. It shows that fuel dilution is high. It shows that viscosity remains within tolerances, despite the fuel dilution.

    My next analysis will prove if AMSOIL SS 0w-20 is a better oil than Honda. It will show if wear metals are higher or lower than Honda. It will show how fuel dilution affects the synthetic AMSOIL vs Honda.

    Facts > opinions.

    @NorthernEX-T Care to share your analysis so we can have some more facts in here. We've got another Dblshock.
     
  9. OP
    un hombre

    un hombre Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2017
    Posts:
    171
    Thanked:
    83
    Location:
    Ireland
    Car(s):
    2017 Honda Civic 1.5 Sport+GT White
    I did not create this thread to change someone's opinion on what oil to use. In fact, I don't care what oil you use, your car, your baby, you take care of it the best you can.

    I created this thread to show, that HONDA DOES ALLOW other viscosities than 0w-20 - that's it. I have proven it by showing a page of my 2017 Civic Hatchback 1.5 turbo oil recommendation page. Is this enough of a proof for you?

    As for the viscosity vs engine protection, forget I even mentioned that subject. You are missing my point completely and I do not intend to discuss this any further. I am sure your 0w-20 will be fine for how you drive.

    I know it will not be fine for me, though. You probably don't make 10k kilometres during a month of your holidays in Europe during which you drive 200 km/h+ on German Autobahn and end up in Italy, where you drive those beautiful Tuscany hills at high engine RPM's in 30+ degrees Celsius of ambient temperature. I will pick what works for me :)
     
    bembol, defeated and MacKharoni thanked this.
  10. parshisa

    parshisa Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2017
    Posts:
    551
    Thanked:
    228
    Location:
    Texas
    Car(s):
    Civic X Hatchback LX
    Looks like fuel dilution is something we have to live with...that really does suck. Your vis dropped pretty hard mate, you probably shouldn't have run it for that long. Have you noticed increase on the oil dipstick? Was the level rising?
     
  11. Snoopyslr

    Snoopyslr Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2016
    Posts:
    1,856
    Thanked:
    2,091
    Occupation:
    CAD Designer @ General Motors
    Location:
    Fenton, Michigan
    First Name:
    John
    Car(s):
    2016 Honda Civic EX-T, 2003 Subaru Impreza WRX
    I was following the MM. I absolutely agree it was way too long and my MM said I had another 15%. I can't find the cSt for Honda oil anywhere, but my 0w-20 turned into about 0w-11. There was no increase on my dipstick. There still isn't with the AMSOIL.

    The only reason I'm running my AMSOIL 10k is because I want an accurate comparison. This report isn't showing catastrophic failure imminent, so I'm not worried about a higher quality oil over the same duration. I absolutely will not be doing 10k changes after this.

    Fuel dilution is incredibly common with turbo direct injection. It appears oils these days can hold up to it as well. It's not something that concerns me too much.
     
    Civics4Ever thanked this.
  12. fitter_here

    fitter_here Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2016
    Posts:
    273
    Thanked:
    94
    Location:
    Ste-Anne-des-Plaines, Quebec, Canada
    Car(s):
    Civic LX 2016 Sedan
    I use synthetic oil 5W30, (any good brand) and I change twice a year, fall and spring, no matter what the percentage left on the oil.
     
  13. parshisa

    parshisa Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2017
    Posts:
    551
    Thanked:
    228
    Location:
    Texas
    Car(s):
    Civic X Hatchback LX
    I hear ya. The reason I asked about oil increase is because mine was rising and was over the upper mark pretty much at the top of the plastic thing. And I have similar results on the oil analysis with the exception of vis being close to 6. I also have have AMS SS in right now. 500mi and looks good so far. I'd be perfectly comfortable running 8-10K on the AMSoil but I doubt fuel dilution will allow to that. Looking more like 3K oil changes...
     
    Civics4Ever and Snoopyslr thanked this.
  14. Snoopyslr

    Snoopyslr Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2016
    Posts:
    1,856
    Thanked:
    2,091
    Occupation:
    CAD Designer @ General Motors
    Location:
    Fenton, Michigan
    First Name:
    John
    Car(s):
    2016 Honda Civic EX-T, 2003 Subaru Impreza WRX
    I won't be running AMSOIL with 3k intervals lol
     
    ChrisSi and NorthernEX-T thanked this.
  15. parshisa

    parshisa Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2017
    Posts:
    551
    Thanked:
    228
    Location:
    Texas
    Car(s):
    Civic X Hatchback LX
    Oh, absolutely not. waste of time and resources. If fuel dilution is the case it will M1 or similar Walmart oil. BTW, they have M1 for 22.88 at the store +12$ rebate. Jumping on it. lol
     
Loading...

Share This Page

Loading...