2016 Civic Si turbo - welcome or not?

Viet_Racer

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I agree with you with the exception that de tuned 2.0T in si will cannibalize Type R. For starters the hardcore type r enthusiasts will opt for it regardless of what engine si has. You have to remember type r differences from si will be far greater than just engine, factor in transmission, steering, suspension, brakes, chassis, aero dynamics, etc. Mitsubishi did it with ralli art lancer, Hyundai Genesis is detuned evo 4b11 as well, focus st will not effect rs for same reasons. Wrx doesn't hurt sti sales as well.
I don't think the Si will really cannibalize Type R sales no matter what engine it gets... because Honda won't allow it to step on the toes in terms of power, at least straight from the factory. What its owners are able to do in the aftermarket to catch the engine up to the CTR is another matter. Also, people willing to spend the type of money that the CTR will cost are most likely going to be looking for 1) the cachet of the Type R badge and/or 2) a turnkey out-of-the-box ready for hardcore tracking kind of car. Not many of them would consider an Si thinking I'll just get a cheaper model and then throw the difference in prices into mods to catch it up to the CTR.
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NIN

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I don't think the Si will really cannibalize Type R sales no matter what engine it gets... because Honda won't allow it to step on the toes in terms of power, at least straight from the factory. What its owners are able to do in the aftermarket to catch the engine up to the CTR is another matter. Also, people willing to spend the type of money that the CTR will cost are most likely going to be looking for 1) the cachet of the Type R badge and/or 2) a turnkey out-of-the-box ready for hardcore tracking kind of car. Not many of them would consider an Si thinking I'll just get a cheaper model and then throw the difference in prices into mods to catch it up to the CTR.
Good points. Halo models usually have a different demographic and subset of buyers than 'lower' models. Think of the Type R like BMW M, Mercedes AMG, Audi R. The people shopping those cars aren't usually cross shopping the standard models, but other performance halo cars.
 

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Good points. Halo models usually have a different demographic and subset of buyers than 'lower' models. Think of the Type R like BMW M, Mercedes AMG, Audi R. The people shopping those cars aren't usually cross shopping the standard models, but other performance halo cars.
Exactly....I believe a person in the market for type r would go focus rs over si......unless you're a hardcore Honda fan....lol
 

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I don't think the Si will really cannibalize Type R sales no matter what engine it gets... because Honda won't allow it to step on the toes in terms of power, at least straight from the factory. What its owners are able to do in the aftermarket to catch the engine up to the CTR is another matter. Also, people willing to spend the type of money that the CTR will cost are most likely going to be looking for 1) the cachet of the Type R badge and/or 2) a turnkey out-of-the-box ready for hardcore tracking kind of car. Not many of them would consider an Si thinking I'll just get a cheaper model and then throw the difference in prices into mods to catch it up to the CTR.
The amount of money spent trying to come close to a car that does 7:50 on the ring will be very expensive, you'd pay just as much as the actual cost of type r. In terms of straight line speed it's very possible, but to compete with what the car is actually built for will be a tall order.
 

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Knowing DI fuel systems and Honda's engine design, I would say your first concern should be on how quickly the fuel system will max out and not the strength/capabilities of the motor. We've typically been maxing out the DI fuel systems on vehicles even with "so-so" engines well before the engine "blows up".
 


iamjack

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Knowing DI fuel systems and Honda's engine design, I would say your first concern should be on how quickly the fuel system will max out and not the strength/capabilities of the motor. We've typically been maxing out the DI fuel systems on vehicles even with "so-so" engines well before the engine "blows up".
Could you explain how/why Honda DI fuel systems max out? Are you a tuner by chance?
 

Stock_07

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I Currently drive a 2014 Civic Si and its awesome but I definitely hope the 10th gen will be turbo
 

Design

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Could you explain how/why Honda DI fuel systems max out?
There's no evidence to suggest Honda's setup will "max out." However, based on other platforms running Direct Injection, fueling is always the first limitation. The fuel pump pressure is raised from 40-80 PSI in port injection to 2000-3000 PSI (or more). That means any change to airflow could cause a HUGE disruption to fueling needs, depending on how the ECU is calibrated. On earlier Mazda DI engines, a simple "bolt-on" such as an intake would max out the fuel pump and cause a lean condition (and subsequent knock/detonation). That in turn can cause accelerated wear to the pistons and rings.

Mods on direct injection are a whole other ball game. If you're not paying attention to how each part impacts AFR, Knock, FP PSI, LTFT and STFT, you could cause serious damage in a short period of time. More about those here:
http://www.civicx.com/threads/tuning-and-forced-induction-glossary.231/
 

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If the Si comes with 1.5T, the torque gain will be healthy, where as power should remain roughly the same as old generation. Not as exciting but it will be quicker. Some people will strongly dislike the 1.5T due to the cost of replacement of bigger turbocharger with integrated manifold, but a tune with exhaust should see good and better gains compare to a N/A engine. The cap will there however for those who wants more, fortunately for this generation, there is the Type-R.

99% of si owners are daily driving it, so i would say most would welcome the 1.5T with arms wide open over the previous engine. I believe Honda will make the right choices with this platform.
 


Vtak Groceries

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I think we've pretty much ruled out the 1.5T on the Si for a variety of reasons.

I want the Si to have the 2.0t....

Do we have anyone on the forums that works at the Honda Ohio engine plant? If we get a few stats on how many k20c1 engines are being produced it will give us a possible hint on if the Si will get it.
 

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That whole program is under lock and key. I'm impressed Honda has kept things under wraps this long without a credible leak...
 

Vtak Groceries

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That whole program is under lock and key. I'm impressed Honda has kept things under wraps this long without a credible leak...
I agree.... Good on Honda. Pretty crazy they have had so little leaks on any information at all.

The front bumper will most likely need a re-design to accommodate the larger k20c1 intercooler. This will be a big tell on weather the Civic Si will have a 1.5t or the 2.0t IMO. Once we see any spy photos that will be something to look for.
 

Whoosh

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That whole program is under lock and key. I'm impressed Honda has kept things under wraps this long without a credible leak...
4 months until a possible NY show reveal so there's still time for a leak of some kind. And we'll probably see spy pics soon.
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