Warranty Voided from "Over Rev"

Honda is refusing to fix my brand new 2019 Honda civic si saying the issue came from an "Over-Rev" but they havent been able to give us any evidence of this. I first encountered this issue after my car was backed into and had collision repairs which replaced the entire front end of the car including the turbo. After we got the car back from the collision repair center. We began noticing the car was using excessive oil. Around a quart every 500 miles. We then brought the car to a dealer to get it looked at this dealer being page honda in michigan. They took a look at the car and gave it back to us with 0 answers after they took it for a test drive and looked around the engine bay for leaks. They did report a misfire after the car was revved to high rpms on a cold start in 32 degrees weather. They brought the car back in and clearned this misfire code. Giving us the car back and telling us to bring it to the dealer "Tameroff Honda Southfield Michigan" that did the collsion repairs. We also asked the page dealer if they did a compression test or leak down test. The gentlemen at the service desk stated "that they didnt have the tool to do a compression test on my 2019 civic si because it has a turbo" which is probably the dumbest thing iv ever heard but reguardless we took the car. Once I got home I reviewed all the dashcam footage that the page honda dealership did to my car and it clearly shows them doing a compression test on my car. Which we later found out at the tameroff dealer was 45psi, 180 psi, 175psi, 120psi. After finding out the page dealership lied about the work they did on our car.

We brought the car to the tameroff dealership. This dealership requested we do a 1000 mile oil consumption test. Which is as follows "Drive the car for 1000 miles and everytime between that 1000 miles it gets a quart low on oil bring it in". After denying there request to continue driving the car multiple times as we did not want to cause further damage to the car they forced us to take the car. After driving 150 miles we brought the car in because the dipstick looked low and the car was .25 quarts low. They topped it off gave us the car back and on the way back home what do you know the dashboard finnaly decides to light up like a christmas tree giving me just about every light including check engine light. So we had the car towed back to the tameroff honda who said they would take a look at the car. After constantly using the execuse we are waiting for hondas tech line to call us and tell us how to start attempting to find the issue of your car. They finnaly did the compression test and got that 45psi, 180 psi, 175psi, 120psi that page dealership never revealed to us. After talking to honda tech line again they were told to remove the head and take a look at the cylinders. The cylinders clearly showed issues in cylinders 1 and 4. After further inspection they discoved some bent valves. Then we waited another week for them to get ahold of honda tech who agreed on the claim of a suspected miss shift/Over rev. They now want us to pay $7000 for a brand new engine. Instead of just repairing the bent valves. Currently at the time of this post my car is stuck at the dealership because they closed due to COVID-19. Honda America isnt doing anything to help us and wants us to argue the suspected miss shift issue with the dealer. We have been constantly asking for proof of this suspected miss shift but they have just been throwing us from person to person with no proof no nothing. Just that I need a new engine

Let me know what you guys think or if you have any reccomendations also let me know.

Car has about 8500 Miles on it

Also here is a link laying out everyting that happend to my car with some videos: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YP8xl89cbDKLqp7WVlNBnNpYB_K34kvJUxO47KCn1nU/edit?usp=sharing

If anyone wants to see the video of them test driving my car ill be happy to send it to you.

The video also shows the mechanic swearing and some customer in the parking lot with his window up.
Honestly ridiculous what people think they can get away with when they think nobody is watching.

I will upload pictures of the engine with the head off too.

Also the turbo needs to be replaced for the 2nd time as its missing an entire bolt done by the collsison repair that I pointed out to them.

Sounds like your collision shop did iffy work. I’m sure your car worked fine before the collision?...and after the repairs is when the issue began. So imma say the collision shop didn’t do the timing correctly or the engine was damaged in the collision to begin with. I would take it to other Honda dealers and see what they do/say.. if they deny it I would file a complaint and look to lawyer up or at least get an opinion from a lawyer. But really where I feel like it went wrong is the collision shop and would argue with them first, and then go after the dealership

I agree with jayy_swish. Sounds like collision center didn't do the timing right then most likely took the car out for a joyride and dogged it. I'm sorry to hear about all this, you will get it resolved. Don't worry too much, I know that's easier said than done. Keep us updated.

jayy_swish said:

Sounds like your collision shop did iffy work. I’m sure your car worked fine before the collision?...and after the repairs is when the issue began. So imma say the collision shop didn’t do the timing correctly or the engine was damaged in the collision to begin with. I would take it to other Honda dealers and see what they do/say.. if they deny it I would file a complaint and look to lawyer up or at least get an opinion from a lawyer. But really where I feel like it went wrong is the collision shop and would argue with them first, and then go after the dealership

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They did say the timing chain was on properly but they never showed us any evidence of that so maybe ill try to get some proof that it was timed correctly.

Thanks for response btw .

mocaSi said:

I agree with jayy_swish. Sounds like collision center didn't do the timing right then most likely took the car out for a joyride and dogged it. I'm sorry to hear about all this, you will get it resolved. Don't worry too much, I know that's easier said than done. Keep us updated.

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Thanks for response its been almost 2 months with out my car and any time we call in or anything they just ping pong us from person to person and we get no answers. But hopefully we will find someone with the answer soon.

Oof, hoping for the best for you and that you'll get your car back working properly soon! If it's been that long and you've made little progress it does seem like a lawyer may be your only option.

Drake said:

Oof, hoping for the best for you and that you'll get your car back working properly soon! If it's been that long and you've made little progress it does seem like a lawyer may be your only option.

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Yeah honestly, these guys just use execuse after execuste to keep delaying and now covid is delaying it even more.

About a month ago there was a 2019 Honda Accord sitting at my mechanics shop. There was also a new Earth Dreams engine sitting in his shop. I asked him if this engine was for the Accord, and he told me the Story. The Accord was in an accident and the body shop (Caliber Collision) repaired the front end, but forgot to tighten one of the coolant hoses. A few days later the coolant leaked out and the engine blew. They took ownership right away and sent the car to the mechanic I use to put a new engine. I would go back to the original body shop and if they don't help you, contact the insurance company that handled the claim

amirza786 said:

About a month ago there was a 2019 Honda Accord sitting at my mechanics shop. There was also a new Earth Dreams engine sitting in his shop. I asked him if this engine was for the Accord, and he told me the Story. The Accord was in an accident and the body shop (Caliber Collision) repaired the front end, but forgot to tighten one of the coolant hoses. A few days later the coolant leaked out and the engine blew. They took ownership right away and sent the car to the mechanic I use to put a new engine. I would go back to the original body shop and if they don't help you, contact the insurance company that handled the claim

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Yeah we may have to reopen the claim but currently my car is completely taken apart at the closed dealership so we cant do anything

Dre0415 said:

Yeah we may have to reopen the claim but currently my car is completely taken apart at the closed dealership so we cant do anything

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One thing I do want them to take into consideration is the damage may have been less severe before we were forced to drive it. For the oil consumption test. And its possible it may have just needed new valves before that drive and now it needs a new engine.

Dre0415 said:

One thing I do want them to take into consideration is the damage may have been less severe before we were forced to drive it. For the oil consumption test. And its possible it may have just needed new valves before that drive and now it needs a new engine.

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It’s hard to say with engines because everything must be a proper seal for it to full function, but I don’t see how needed a new engine for a bent valve. If anything I’d take it to another third party shop to get the engine worked on. I don’t see how a bent valve requires a new engine. If anything a new valve the obvious, maybe a new cylinder head if the bent valve effected the seal, and maybe a new piston if it effected the rod.. as long as there’s no scoring on the cylinder block then I don’t see why it’s a whole engine haul is needed in my opinion. Then again these new Honda engines are way more complex than they use to be 15 years ago... but I still don’t see how a valve could result in a engine haul

jayy_swish said:

It’s hard to say with engines because everything must be a proper seal for it to full function, but I don’t see how needed a new engine for a bent valve. If anything I’d take it to another third party shop to get the engine worked on. I don’t see how a bent valve requires a new engine. If anything a new valve the obvious, maybe a new cylinder head if the bent valve effected the seal, and maybe a new piston if it effected the rod.. as long as there’s no scoring on the cylinder block then I don’t see why it’s a whole engine haul is needed in my opinion. Then again these new Honda engines are way more complex than they use to be 15 years ago... but I still don’t see how a valve could result in a engine haul

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Yeah thats what the service desk said at first. He said it will probably need new valves. Then after a week of him trying to get ahold of the honda tech line he said new engine.

Oh god, Page Honda. Dealerships by and large are simply terrible. I absolutely abhor the dealership model. But, I have dealt with Page Honda in Bloomfield and I can say that they are crooks, through and through. The business was sold to new management a few years ago and they went right into the toilet. Now they only look to maximize short-term profit at the expense of customer loyalty and satisfaction. Their sales and management will lie to you constantly, and from what I've seen their service department is barely competent at best. Not to derail the thread with the issues I had with them, but last October when attempting to purchase a 2020 Si coupe that I had ordered through Page Honda:

• I had to fight with the salesman over the MSRP of the vehicle, to the point where I had to point at the actual window sticker to prove that he was lying
• They kept changing/increasing the various documentation/etc fees whenever I negotiated a lower price
• They completely ignored/refused the financing I had set up myself even though the bank was one that they "preferred" (they also offered financing through the same lender but with a higher APR, huh?)
• They attempted to completely ignore the Costco auto program discount I was supposed to get and eventually offered me less than half of it, acting as if I should be thankful for the privilege
• When I told them that I'm no longer interested in doing business with them, they fought against giving me back the $500 deposit I had placed on the vehicle, even though they had told me multiple times that it is fully refundable, and even told me that I had to wait until one of their sales team came back from vacation! Needless to say, I did not leave until I got it back.

Avoid them at all costs. I'm sorry you had to deal with them.

Tamaroff in Southfield is where I ended up purchasing a 2020 Si sedan, since their sales team was actually flexible, and even though they aren't part of the Costco auto program they gave me the discount anyway. They didn't bait and switch or fight me every step of the way, so the sales experience was pretty positive. I have not heard the greatest of things about their service department, though. But, keep in mind that warranty work is controlled by Honda corporate, since the dealerships can/will only do work that is approved by corporate so that they will be reimbursed for it.

Chances are that either the collision or the collision repair shop caused the issue you're having, and I lean toward the shop. The repair shop probably hooned the hell out of the car or something to "test" it. Bent valves would require some moneyshift action to get the pistons to tap the valve heads. Usually this would only require new valves, reground valve seats, and maybe some other associated valvetrain components. A catastrophic failure could easily cause damage to the pistons, piston rings, and cylinder walls, but I'm not sure that I see any of that in your photos. I think you really only need new valves, or a new cylinder head at worst. But, if you can prove the damage is not your fault and get a new engine under warranty or on the collision shop's dime, I would go that route.

Good luck.

LBP said:

Oh god, Page Honda. Dealerships by and large are simply terrible. I absolutely abhor the dealership model. But, I have dealt with Page Honda in Bloomfield and I can say that they are crooks, through and through. The business was sold to new management a few years ago and they went right into the toilet. Now they only look to maximize short-term profit at the expense of customer loyalty and satisfaction. Their sales and management will lie to you constantly, and from what I've seen their service department is barely competent at best. Not to derail the thread with the issues I had with them, but last October when attempting to purchase a 2020 Si coupe that I had ordered through Page Honda:

• I had to fight with the salesman over the MSRP of the vehicle, to the point where I had to point at the actual window sticker to prove that he was lying
• They kept changing/increasing the various documentation/etc fees whenever I negotiated a lower price
• They completely ignored/refused the financing I had set up myself even though the bank was one that they "preferred" (they also offered financing through the same lender but with a higher APR, huh?)
• They attempted to completely ignore the Costco auto program discount I was supposed to get and eventually offered me less than half of it, acting as if I should be thankful for the privilege
• When I told them that I'm no longer interested in doing business with them, they fought against giving me back the $500 deposit I had placed on the vehicle, even though they had told me multiple times that it is fully refundable, and even told me that I had to wait until one of their sales team came back from vacation! Needless to say, I did not leave until I got it back.

Avoid them at all costs. I'm sorry you had to deal with them.

Tamaroff in Southfield is where I ended up purchasing a 2020 Si sedan, since their sales team was actually flexible, and even though they aren't part of the Costco auto program they gave me the discount anyway. They didn't bait and switch or fight me every step of the way, so the sales experience was pretty positive. I have not heard the greatest of things about their service department, though. But, keep in mind that warranty work is controlled by Honda corporate, since the dealerships can/will only do work that is approved by corporate so that they will be reimbursed for it.

Chances are that either the collision or the collision repair shop caused the issue you're having, and I lean toward the shop. The repair shop probably hooned the hell out of the car or something to "test" it. Bent valves would require some moneyshift action to get the pistons to tap the valve heads. Usually this would only require new valves, reground valve seats, and maybe some other associated valvetrain components. A catastrophic failure could easily cause damage to the pistons, piston rings, and cylinder walls, but I'm not sure that I see any of that in your photos. If you can prove the damage is not your fault and get a new engine under warranty or on the collision shop's dime, I would go that route.

Good luck.

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Yeah we have been trying to get the car fixed under warranty but after asking for evidence of my suspected $7000 miss shift they provide nothing. My car has been sitting there for almost 2 months now with no repair work done to it and I have no way of contacting them as they're closed. Honda corporate isn't doing anything except agreeing with the dealership on everything. But the dealership cant seem to prove anything to myself.

I also wrote page a terrible review on google still waiting for there response on that. Absolute terrible service department they're all just a bunch of liars and think that nobody is watching. I mean the man who took my car to the lift 5 mins after me leaving can be seen aggressively revving it for no reason all the way to his lift when he knows the car could have catastrophic damage. Please don't ever take your car to that dealer.